Time for Des to Whinge re Penalty Counts

[_G-Dog_]

So ive looked at our penalty counts since the Roosters made their case public on Monday

If Trent Robinson / Nick Politis see their poor record with penalty counts worthy of whinging about publicly and copping a fine, then Des should definately do the same and the club should pay.

Since 2004 ( the last year we won more penalty counts than we lost ):
we have been through 3 coaches, had many personnel changes including 4 captains, our results have ranged from grand finals to bottom 8 and wooden spoon.

But amongst all this 1 thing has remained constant:
Since 2004 We have never had a season where we have won more penalty counts than we lost and Its not even close.

we are the only club that has lost more penalty counts than won EVERY YEAR since 2004

the record is abysmal since 2004: 280 games played/ penalty counts won = 85/ penalty count win rate = 30%


2015 : Won8 Lost14 Draw4
2014 : Won10 Lost15 Draw3
2013 : Won9 Lost13 Draw3
2012 : Won3 Lost18 Draw6
2011 : Won5 Lost12 Draw7
2010 : Won8 Lost13 Draw3
2009 : Won10 Lost16 Draw0
2008 : Won9 Lost11 Draw4
2007 : Won8 Lost16 Draw2
2006 : Won5 Lost17 Draw4
2005 : Won10 Lost13 Draw1

 

[Wolfmother]

So ive looked at our penalty counts since the Roosters made their case public on Monday

If Trent Robinson / Nick Politis see their poor record with penalty counts worthy of whinging about publicly and copping a fine, then Des should definately do the same and the club should pay.

Since 2004 ( the last year we won more penalty counts than we lost ):
we have been through 3 coaches, had many personnel changes including 4 captains, our results have ranged from grand finals to wooden spoons.

But amongst all this 1 thing has remained constant:
Since 2004 We have never had a season where we have won more penalty counts than we lost and Its not even close.

we are the only club that has lost more penalty counts than won EVERY YEAR since 2004

2015 : Won8 Lost14 Draw4
2014 : Won10 Lost15 Draw3
2013 : Won9 Lost13 Draw3
2012 : Won3 Lost18 Draw6
2011 : Won5 Lost12 Draw7
2010 : Won8 Lost13 Draw3
2009 : Won10 Lost16 Draw0
2008 : Won9 Lost11 Draw4
2007 : Won8 Lost16 Draw2
2006 : Won5 Lost17 Draw4
2005 : Won10 Lost13 Draw1

Thats interesting data particularly the 2012 line .. We only won 3 and lost 18!
And that was our Stella year too hmm not sure what to make of it.

 

[_G-Dog_]

Thats interesting data particularly the 2012 line .. We only won 3 and lost 12 !
And that was our Stella year too hmm not sure what to make of it.

The better we go the more they want to try and bring us back to the rest of the field

But seriously These stats tell a story ... they are too consistent to ignore

 

[GDR]

and I bet in those figures we have special refs that dis like us too.. I know we have a bad record with maxwell

 

[CroydonDog]

Meh. Why does the penalty count have to be even?

You don't "win" or "lose" a penalty count.

 

[KiwiDog7]

So ive looked at our penalty counts since the Roosters made their case public on Monday

If Trent Robinson / Nick Politis see their poor record with penalty counts worthy of whinging about publicly and copping a fine, then Des should definately do the same and the club should pay.

Since 2004 ( the last year we won more penalty counts than we lost ):
we have been through 3 coaches, had many personnel changes including 4 captains, our results have ranged from grand finals to wooden spoons.

But amongst all this 1 thing has remained constant:
Since 2004 We have never had a season where we have won more penalty counts than we lost and Its not even close.

we are the only club that has lost more penalty counts than won EVERY YEAR since 2004

the record is abysmal since 2004: 280 games played/ penalty counts won = 85/ penalty count win rate = 30%


2015 : Won8 Lost14 Draw4
2014 : Won10 Lost15 Draw3
2013 : Won9 Lost13 Draw3
2012 : Won3 Lost18 Draw6
2011 : Won5 Lost12 Draw7
2010 : Won8 Lost13 Draw3
2009 : Won10 Lost16 Draw0
2008 : Won9 Lost11 Draw4
2007 : Won8 Lost16 Draw2
2006 : Won5 Lost17 Draw4
2005 : Won10 Lost13 Draw1

Staggering and damning statistics bro

'wooden spoons' plural? 2008 and what was the other season?

 

[Indiandog]

interesting stats

the years where we came close to having equal numbers of win/loss penalty counts are they year where we performed worst.

2008 : Won9 Lost11 Draw4
2005 : Won10 Lost13 Draw1

so it is proven the year we lose most penalty counts is the year we perform well.

 

[Bad Billy]

Since 2004 we've had coffs harbour, crowd violence, bottle throwing, Michael Ennis and Black Friday. as well as that, some global incidents involving mid-easterners that only perpetuate the bigoted view this all Bulldogs players and fans are terrorists and rapists.
Sadly, people don't give a fuck about screwing the Bulldogs.

 

[DoggiesBoy]

The hard thing about penalty stats, some teams are definitely instructed to give them away deliberately if it helps their defence.

 

[Wolfmother]

interesting stats

the years where we came close to having equal numbers of win/loss penalty counts are they year where we performed worst.

2008 : Won9 Lost11 Draw4
2005 : Won10 Lost13 Draw1

so it is proven the year we lose most penalty counts is the year we perform well.

Weren't the roosters the most penalised team in the comp when they won the GF?

 

[_G-Dog_]

The hard thing about penalty stats, some teams are definitely instructed to give them away deliberately if it helps their defence.

And thats the point .. this is over a very long time with 3 different coaches and a heap of player changes yet were always on the wrong end..

 

[BDPScarface]

Since 2004 we've had coffs harbour, crowd violence, bottle throwing, Michael Ennis and Black Friday. as well as that, some global incidents involving mid-easterners that only perpetuate the bigoted view this all Bulldogs players and fans are terrorists and rapists.
Sadly, people don't give a fuck about screwing the Bulldogs.

I posted something along those lines here, the post has gone missing. May have been because I was a bit brief but blunt, I don't know. But anyway, shit happens.

But seriously, without going into too much detail, there was a malicious element in the media that played off global events to build an image of the club as a "dirty" club. And now the Rugby League community in general have a dislike or hatred to our club, being "dirty", ignorant that it's oomph came out of a media that took liberties in linking race/religion issues because of significant global events triggered/involving one major racial group.

What's this got to do with the penalty count and refs? I'm convinced that the referees are influenced by the perception of the club as "dirty" and that means that subconsciously, they have less turmoil in their decision process of awarding a penalty against the team. They have less inhibitions about awarding than they do other teams.

Having said (wrote?) all that, I am not suggesting that it is a major reason we haven't won a premiership since 2004. Or that I want Des to try to publicise it. In fact, I reckon if he did, it would be counter productive. The best and only way to try and shake of the "dirty" tag, even if it's results seem mild/intangible and would only help in future generations of league officialdom, is for the club to continue it's good community work. I don't think not getting a fair go on penalties has hindered results greatly, as we are still relatively successful. But, it's just one of those "what if" elements, you know, if we got a fairer go, would we have been able to go just a little further and win the comp, type things that causes angst. I wish it'd go away easily, but there's no way referees or the NRL are even aware of a problem to acknowledge.

 

[Bad Billy]

Weren't the roosters the most penalised team in the comp when they won the GF?

They were. They were quite clever in the application of that tactic.
They deliberately gave away penalties, early in the count, when their opponents got quick play-the-balls, breaking up the momentum and frustrating their opposition.

 

[belmore_utd]

agree with the referees perception of us as a dirty club has them subconsciously penalising anything that looks remotely suspicious.

there have been a few studies with regards to this.
also interestingly in one of the studies I sighted mention of home crowd influence on the referee is diminished where the home team has a running track around the pitch.

the hatred for the bulldogs in the publics eye is media perpetuated but the hatred for the dogs within the nrl ranks is deeply rooted and stems back further to ellery hanley, the fibro shoulder pads and the forced drop out rule which we used to win a gf (as if no one else was trying it).

 

[belmore_utd]

They were. They were quite clever in the application of that tactic.
They deliberately gave away penalties, early in the count, when their opponents got quick play-the-balls, breaking up the momentum and frustrating their opposition.

spot on billy. used to be a send off or sin bin offense. professional foul even!!

 

[Trendsetter]

Roosters played smart, giving away penalties early in the game only ensures your going to get soft penalties at the back end of the game cause we all know how much refs love evening out the penalty counts as not to get grilled about lopsided ones afterwards.

Think about it, some of you may not remember a lot of games, but I've always kept an eye on the penalty count to make sure my suspicions were true, and there's a pattern there, every time there's a lopsided count in our games, we'll somehow get 3-4 penalties at the end of the game when it's too late and the game is just out of reach.
At the end of the day, they don't tell you what minutes the penalties are given, they just slap up 2 sets of numbers at the end of the game and no one thinks twice about them.

 

[Papa Emeritus]

I really do not think we are victims of ref bias when it comes to penalties. Almost all of the time it is one of our players being a bellend. We are not exactly the best disciplined team.

 

[blueyedsamurai]

We've only won 1 penalty count this year and it was against the Eels, we drew with the panthers but every other game we've lost them.

 

[belmore_utd]

I really do not think we are victims of ref bias when it comes to penalties. Almost all of the time it is one of our players being a bellend. We are not exactly the best disciplined team.

yeah nah...when it comes ruck speed and other ruck infringements, 10 metres, lost balls being called a strip, forward passes and the video ref I am never confident and am pretty sure we are getting screwed atleast 60/40.

and most of this does not reflect in the penalty count but when you are taking our well publicized biggest pack to ever play the game ever back 12-13 metres and the the other team is given 9 metres it is going to fuck our big forwards over.

and when we have momentum and have the other team shot to peices, oh yeah lets give canterbury a useless sqaure up penalty when they are already on the front foot and slow down the game and also f+ck up their feng shui.

 

[BDPScarface]

agree with the referees perception of us as a dirty club has them subconsciously penalising anything that looks remotely suspicious.

there have been a few studies with regards to this.
also interestingly in one of the studies I sighted mention of home crowd influence on the referee is diminished where the home team has a running track around the pitch.

the hatred for the bulldogs in the publics eye is media perpetuated but the hatred for the dogs within the nrl ranks is deeply rooted and stems back further to ellery hanley, the fibro shoulder pads and the forced drop out rule which we used to win a gf (as if no one else was trying it).

Yep, aware of that. That's why I said "oomph". We were moderately disliked before. But that period 2000-2005 was particularly bad. There's a lot of temptation to elaborate, as a Lebanese Australian I'm still deeply hurt and offended by various things that happened. Things perpetrated by individuals and groups of varying backgrounds (incl. Lebanese Australians of course). But it'll veer too far off topic if I persist.

I really do not think we are victims of ref bias when it comes to penalties. Almost all of the time it is one of our players being a bellend. We are not exactly the best disciplined team.

Sure, our players can be bellends... but for more than a decade, all the bellends in the league have ended up in our starting sides? All the teams have habitual penalty offenders. For me, yeah, Kasiano, he gives away quite a few stupid penalties. But he doesn't give away all the penalties in a single game. Somehow, the refs find other Bulldogs candidates.