Maguire sees value in loan system

[Vlasnik]

South Sydney Rabbitohs coach Michael Maguire said he would consider the merit of the NRL one day using the English Premier League’s loan system, the practice where clubs allowed contracted players to represent other teams.

The system is used for a variety of reasons. A young player might, for instance, be farmed out to a lowly ranked team to gain experience at a higher level than reserve grade or the club’s management might be in dispute with a player and not want him around the team.

The amount of time a player was placed on loan could range from a few weeks to a season.

The practice was adopted by the English Super League and Maguire said he used it during his successful stint with Wigan to allow the club’s emerging players who were unable to break into the top grade to find their feet at another team.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...-loan-deals-20130126-2ddk0.html#ixzz2J7fS4xCa

Read more: http://www.zerotackle.com/nrl/maguire-sees-loan-system-8390/#ixzz2JkD5R8na
Read more at http://www.zerotackle.com/nrl/maguire-sees-loan-system-8390/#fjjkyxazdv4uZ1kP.99

 

[Mr Invisible]

I think it's a great idea, it'd stop the game losing players to competing codes.

 

[Abdul..]

Yep, have always loved this idea. I hope it takes hold some time in the future.

 

[Bad Billy]

I bet he'd like to loan out some of the burgess "glass boys"

 

[Pom_81]

It's a very different idea, though, to Super League. Loans are vital there because of the huge gulf in class between Wigan/Leeds/Warrington and Salford/London etc. There, the better sides can loan out promising youngsters to get game experience i.e. treat the bottom sides almost as glorified reserve grade teams. In the NRL the top to bottom gap is much narrower. The past couple of years, the worst sides have been Parra, Penrith and the Titans and they're all capable of beating the likes of Melbourne on their day.

Thinking of the Dogs' squad as minor premiers from last year - who might we loan out and which clubs would want them? I can't think of anyone.

 

[MAD DOG]

Doesn't make sense at all... snap out of it people.... there is a huge difference between NRL and EPL.... has anyone heard of the NRL salary cap???? this is one of the reasons for it... soccer/football teams in Europe not only buy there starting team but also spend money on there reserves just so they don't play for the opposition and beat them... teams like real Madrid, Barcelona, man u, man city etc will but there team that's worth hundreds of millions of dollars then they celebrate when they beat a team worth 5mill.... its like the bulldog buying cam smith, cronk, later, India, Thornton, thaiday, parker, benji, Marshall, farah , hayne, mannah, moi moi, bird, Taylor, gallen , carney , , Johnson, hurl and shove them in reserve grade etc... we win

 

[Paint.]

There are some great benefits...

A) As stated above, the main benefit would be blooding youngsters. Think of a team like Parramatta struggling in their centres last year, we could have loaned out Lafai to them, he would've gotten some game time and a great chance to prove himself to the Dogs.

B) Ease in injured players. Again, using the Bulldogs as an example, neither Halatau nor Hodkinson got the chance to prove themselves for us after returning from injury, due to how well we were doing. Halatau could have gone to, say, the Panthers who were short on forwards, or Hodkinson to Titans. They could have proved their worth to the Dogs and had a chance to earn back their starting spot.

C) Underperforming players. At the Dogs, we've got so much competition for spots, and such a high demand for results, that we don't have the opportunity to play guys who are in bad form, back into form. Taupau had a really bad run last season, we couldn't play him because, being a top club, we have so little room for error. At a club like the Panthers or Eels, he could have gotten more time, less pressure (due to their lower position on the ladder), and moer of a chance to re-gain form.

D) Competition for spots. Looking at other teams, you have guys like Ben Hunt at the Broncos who can't get sufficient game time due to the quality of guys like McCullough, Norman and Wallace. This season, with Prince signing on, he has even less of a chance of getting playing time. He could be loaned out to a club like the Titans or Panthers, who don't have good halves, and play their so that he remains match fit.

E) Filling injury needs. We had an injury crisis at the Dogs last season - and we were very lucky to find two unhappy players in Inu and Perrett to leave mid-season. Had we not found players like them available, we would have had the option of a short term loan (for someone in a similar position to Inu), in which case more clubs would have been happy to do business with us.

 

[Captain Kickass]

So ... which players in Maguire's squad aren't wanted around the team ?

 

[Chicharito]

i don't mind the idea...would be interesting to see if this is taken up in the near future

 

[PantherPower83]

Im probably one of the few that thinks a loan system has no place in our game. Sure, it could work for the EPL who have many clubs and thousands of potential players. I don't think our league has the numbers nor the amount of clubs to warrant a successful loan system. We already have too many dud players who are playing at the top level.

Instead, I feel that strengthening the old school Reserve Grade competition would be a better way to go. Those that underperform or returning from injury can ply their trade in a second tier competition before looking to reclaim their spot in first grade.

As for competition for spots, a solid strong second tier competition will see increased competition for positions.

 

[Paint.]

Im probably one of the few that thinks a loan system has no place in our game. Sure, it could work for the EPL who have many clubs and thousands of potential players. I don't think our league has the numbers nor the amount of clubs to warrant a successful loan system. We already have too many dud players who are playing at the top level.

Instead, I feel that strengthening the old school Reserve Grade competition would be a better way to go. Those that underperform or returning from injury can ply their trade in a second tier competition before looking to reclaim their spot in first grade.

As for competition for spots, a solid strong second tier competition will see increased competition for positions.

I can see where you're coming from. Can anyone give us an insight into how it works in the ESL? Pom_81?

 

[CroydonDog]

Im probably one of the few that thinks a loan system has no place in our game. Sure, it could work for the EPL who have many clubs and thousands of potential players. I don't think our league has the numbers nor the amount of clubs to warrant a successful loan system. We already have too many dud players who are playing at the top level.

Instead, I feel that strengthening the old school Reserve Grade competition would be a better way to go. Those that underperform or returning from injury can ply their trade in a second tier competition before looking to reclaim their spot in first grade.

As for competition for spots, a solid strong second tier competition will see increased competition for positions.

I think there's nothing wrong with discussing the options, but I personally can't see it working for the reasons pointed out by PP83. The market is too small, and Rugby League too tribal.

I can see where you're coming from. Can anyone give us an insight into how it works in the ESL? Pom_81?

This too.... I hear about players being on loan, but don't know the actual logistics re money etc.

 

[Pom_81]

Im probably one of the few that thinks a loan system has no place in our game. Sure, it could work for the EPL who have many clubs and thousands of potential players. I don't think our league has the numbers nor the amount of clubs to warrant a successful loan system. We already have too many dud players who are playing at the top level.

Instead, I feel that strengthening the old school Reserve Grade competition would be a better way to go. Those that underperform or returning from injury can ply their trade in a second tier competition before looking to reclaim their spot in first grade.

As for competition for spots, a solid strong second tier competition will see increased competition for positions.

I'm with you on pretty much all of this.

I don't have any objection to loans being brought it - I just think that it'd make basically no difference. I think some people are kidding themselves when they say that a club would have loaned a promising youngster from another side to cover for an injury. You'd want to blood your own juniors rather than doing a favour to another side unless that guy was many times better than your own player. With such an even talent pool, it's unlikely to be the case. All it would do, I imagine, is provide an "out" for players perceived as overpaid flops (Jennings at the Panthers, Inu at the Warriors etc). I prefer a system that encourages clubs to back their own judgement and be forced to take on a player's contract as we did with Inu to one whereby a "try before you buy" exists.

Loans only have a function when there's a huge gulf in squad size/talent and payroll between clubs. One of the brilliant things about the NRL is its week in, week out competitive nature. There isn't such a massive gulf. Look at Super League. There's almost no loans whatsoever between teams at a similar competitive level. Wigan, St Helens, Leeds etc don't loan players to each other. They loan them to the likes of Salford and Widnes. There's almost two leagues within the Super League and I can recall barely any top 6 side loaning anyone (Shaun Lunt winning the premiership at Leeds last year while on loan from Huddersfield was a unique case).

Even stepping outside Rugby League to Soccer, how many times does a Champions League team loan a player to another Champions League team? Not quite, but almost never. Loans are a necessary function to allow big clubs to hold a huge stable of promising young players, while still giving them game experience at a better level than reserve grade. The youngsters want to be on the books of a big club to maximise their future chances (and current earnings) while the lesser clubs get players who wouldn't come to them, often at a subsidised wage.


(As for how it works, I think clubs negotiate the financial arrangements i.e. whether the loaning team pays some, none, or all of the player's salary. This can give cash strapped teams subsidised payroll. I'm pretty sure that the club receiving the loan only has the amount they pay count against their cap and the club which loans the player out counts only any difference between their contracted salary and what the player receives from his loan club.

There's also some clauses to mean that all the players at a club at a given time cannot have full-year salaries exceeding the salary cap. Those are included to stop a side simply staying at 80% of the salary cap and then spending the rest padding their squad for the final few games of the year with all the superstars whose clubs missed the finals. I'm not sure of the exact details, but it's a common sense clause).

 

[Rodzilla]

i bet you will be hard pressed to find a situation where arsenal have loaned a player to the likes of liverpool or man utd, likewise you probably wont see a current epl relegation favourite loan to another team likely to be relegated

my point is they dont loan to competitors and since the whole nrl is in a competitive situation, there will be no loans

 

[Pom_81]

i bet you will be hard pressed to find a situation where arsenal have loaned a player to the likes of liverpool or man utd, likewise you probably wont see a current epl relegation favourite loan to another team likely to be relegated

my point is they dont loan to competitors and since the whole nrl is in a competitive situation, there will be no loans

Premier League clubs have only been allowed to loan players to other Premier League clubs for about 3 or 4 years now (prior to that it was only loans to lower league teams). I'm pretty sure the only Top 6 team to loan a player to another Top 6 team was the Chelsea-Arsenal Yossi Benayoun loan a few years ago.

 

[Rodzilla]

Premier League clubs have only been allowed to loan players to other Premier League clubs for about 3 or 4 years now (prior to that it was only loans to lower league teams). I'm pretty sure the only Top 6 team to loan a player to another Top 6 team was the Chelsea-Arsenal Yossi Benayoun loan a few years ago.

are you sure about that rule and/or timeframe? fishing on google for an example and i found that song was loaned from arsenal to epl charlton in the 2006/2007 season

 

[Pom_81]

are you sure about that rule and/or timeframe? fishing on google for an example and i found that song was loaned from arsenal to epl charlton in the 2006/2007 season

Jeez. I'm older than I thought. It looks like they were reintroduced back for the 2003-2004 season. It doesn't seem that long ago in my mind...

 

[Rodzilla]

Jeez. I'm older than I thought. It looks like they were reintroduced back for the 2003-2004 season. It doesn't seem that long ago in my mind...

time does seem to fly recently tbh