Religious Discussion Thread

[Dogna88]

Isnt Hindiusm monotheistic?

I think Henotheistic (Worships one God without denying the existence of other Gods). But then also defined as Polytheistic. But reading further whilst getting car sick, I can see why it is considered monotheistic lolll.

Learn something new everyday.

So I just want to be clear. based on Craig's argument alone. Waheguru could be the one true God?

 

[Dogna88]

1. If God does not exist, then objective moral values (OMV) and duties dont exist.
2. Objective moral values and duties do exist
3. Therefore God exists.

Assuming I concede OMV over SMV (relativism). Which I lean towards SMV. And assuming we are talking about Metaethics.

Need to define what Objective moral values are. You said " true or it exists regardless of anyone's opinion"

Moral values are universally valid and true unconditionally under all circumstances?

or

Moral values that exist independent of human opinion, but may vary according to context and circumstance?

.

 

[Northern Beaches dog]

What i said initially.
For example.
Raping and torturing a child for fun is wrong regardless or independent of anyone's opinion.
If the rapist or anyone says it is not wrong to rape and torture for fun then they are wrong.
Analogy, if someone said 1+1 =3 then that person is wrong

 

[Dogna88]

So

Moral values are universally valid and true unconditionally under all circumstances?

And. I'm not attacking tbh. You are sincere in debate

 

[Northern Beaches dog]

No, it is specific to the circumstance.
That is why it argues for objective morality and not moral absolutes.

 

[Dogna88]

No, it is specific to the circumstance.
That is why it argues for objective morality and not moral absolutes.

So

Moral values that exist independent of human opinion, but may vary according to context and circumstance?

 

[Northern Beaches dog]

Yes, they are still independent of human opinion in each different scenario

 

[Dogna88]

There are many type of morality which are objective in this way. They have an objective reference point, which exist independent of human opinion.

Ie. Consequentialism. The reference point is 'potential consequences as a standard'

In this argument it is your God (or a single God) as the reference point? Which is subjective.

So why is God responsible for Objective moral values? Craig states "Take away God and what basis then remains for objective moral duties", thats "We don't know, therefore God". You can't shift the Burden of proof by saying if you cant account for OMV that your assertion must be true.

And again. I need to add. I am giving you OMV. Not that I concede OMV over SMV lol

 

[Northern Beaches dog]

No, the argument is the VALUE.
For example, God is omnibenevolent - possessing perfect or unlimited goodness.
His nature is the GOOD.
His commands flow from his nature.
For example, the commandment, thy shall not kill. If you kill, then you have done something objectively evil, wrong.
You need to look at the VALUE.
Lets look at a crazy example just to highlight the point.
If God said you ought to follow the bulldogs, then following the bulldogs is objectively good, regardless of any ones opinion.
If you do not follow the bulldogs and follow another team, you have actually done something objectively evil, wrong.

 

[Dogna88]

So God is responsible for the value?

So thou shall not kill. Isn't that dealing in absolutes?

If you kill protecting you child, its objectively evil, wrong? Flooding the entire world except a boat of people is objectively wrong?

If God commands flow from his nature and he is omnibenevolent (which is a subjective reference point) . Wouldn't it objectively be moral to be of good and loving character, regardless of situation?

And it still doesn't answer. Why is God responsible for the value?

 

[Dogmonster]

Please god get rid of Trent Barrett.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Is raping and torturing a child for fun wrong independent of anyones opinion?
If rapist said it was right, are they wrong for saying it is right?

If you say yes to either of these, then you are confirming OMV exist.

The thing is, EVERYONE, including yourself lives your life as if OMVs exist just as the sun exists.

Cultures used to sacrifice children to Gods to get better crops. OMV doesn't exist in full.

Some morality is natural. It's part of our base genetics. Things like basic protection of the tribe. But most moral value has been developed and taught over time.

 

[The DoggFather]

Please god get rid of Trent Barrett.

This will finally prove there is a God lol

 

[Dogna88]

This will finally prove there is a God lol

I'll believe. Wallah lolll

 

[Hacky McAxe]

No, the argument is the VALUE.
For example, God is omnibenevolent - possessing perfect or unlimited goodness.
His nature is the GOOD.
His commands flow from his nature.
For example, the commandment, thy shall not kill. If you kill, then you have done something objectively evil, wrong.
You need to look at the VALUE.
Lets look at a crazy example just to highlight the point.
If God said you ought to follow the bulldogs, then following the bulldogs is objectively good, regardless of any ones opinion.
If you do not follow the bulldogs and follow another team, you have actually done something objectively evil, wrong.

I get where you're coming from but it's not proof of God. Like everything surrounding God, it's untestable.

It's the circular reasoning fallacy. If OMV exists then God exists. If God exists then OMV exists. But it's a paradox. You can't prove that God or OMV exists as both are reliant on each other.

 

[The DoggFather]

I'll believe. Wallah lolll

I'll hold you to that my bro. I'll meet you at Parra river to baptize you myself lol

 

[Dogmonster]

I get where you're coming from but it's not proof of God. Like everything surrounding God, it's untestable.

It's the circular reasoning fallacy. If OMV exists then God exists. If God exists then OMV exists. But it's a paradox. You can't prove that God or OMV exists as both are reliant on each other.

I dont care if god is an alien, i hope if it is an alien it probes Trents arse out of Belmore.

 

[Dogna88]

I'll hold you to that my bro. I'll meet you at Parra river to baptize you myself lol

I'll enter the Church of Assassin. Quit my day job. Go straight to the broth with an occa haha

 

[Northern Beaches dog]

Cultures used to sacrifice children to Gods to get better crops. OMV doesn't exist in full.

Some morality is natural. It's part of our base genetics. Things like basic protection of the tribe. But most moral value has been developed and taught over time.

The question is, were those cultures WRONG to do such a thing?
If you say yes, then you are affirming OMV.
Remember, i am not asking you what you like and dislike.
I am asking if it is right or wrong.

 

[The DoggFather]

I'll enter the Church of Assassin. Quit my day job. Go straight to the broth with an occa haha

Bless you my son!