Talent pool too shallow for NRL to expand competition, Andrew Johns says

[Vlasnik]

Rugby league Immortal Andrew Johns has raised fears over plans to expand the NRL, declaring there's such a shortage of top-end talent that the governing body should actually cut teams.

ARLC chairman Peter V'landys and NRL chief executive Andrew Abdo plan on adding a second Brisbane club in 2023 and hope to introduce an 18th club by 2027, just in time for renegotiating a new broadcast deal.

The 18-team NRL competition could even be split across two conferences, V'landys announced last month.

But Magic Round's average winning margin was 20.75 and the ugliest game saw Manly steamroll Brisbane in a 50-6 win, numbers that add weight to Johns' claims of a lack of elite talent.

The Newcastle Knights looking dejected after conceding a try to the North Queensland Cowboys in round 11. (Getty)
"The worrying thing for me is they're talking about bringing two more teams in. I don't know where the talent pool is going to come from," Johns said on Wide World of Sports' Immortal Behaviour.


"There are less kids playing sport in general but less kids playing NRL. Video games, worrying about head knocks and how big the kids are in junior footy.


"I think the ideal number to start with is 14 teams and then eventually going down to 12 teams where everyone plays each other twice.

"I just worry with the two extra teams where the absolute, elite talent pool is going to come from. It's probably the biggest gap we've seen."

The Canterbury Bulldogs have struggled enormously ever since playing finals footy in 2016. (Getty)
Johns says the NRL has too many Sydney clubs but conceded it'd have to take an unapologetic leader to axe a team from the harbour city.

V'landys has shown during his reign as ARLC boss that he's as defiant an administrator as they come, mostly evident in pushing the government to resume the 2020 season on May 28 during the COVID-19 pandemic and the maligned crackdown on high shots.

V'landys also introduced the six-again rule and has consistently bagged the AFL.

ARLC chairman Peter V'landys. (Getty)
"If you look at it, there are probably too many teams in Sydney," Johns said.

"How you get them down I don't know. It would take an extremely tough leader to make those decisions. I just worry about two more teams and how the competition will be once we have 18 teams."

Fears raised amid 'worrying' NRL expansion plans

'It's probably the biggest gap we've seen'

wwos.nine.com.au

 

[Heckler]

Lol...use us as an example.

 

[Freakzilla]

It's the coaching and NRL administration that is too shallow.

 

[Alan79]

The talent pool is probably a bit shallow. But the biggest issue is that the salary cap doesn't distribute the talent. As long as top teams are allowed to offer Unders and still get players while offering hidden cash outside the cap we'll see a competition where teams struggle to improve. The insistence that 95%of the cap be spent every year means that even poor players will sometimes get locked up in struggling teams for more than they're worth and prevent struggling clubs from competing to buy significant talent.

I've said for a few years that I'd like to see a system where if any club isn't able to offer 95%of what the highest offer going is, they shouldn't be able to make an offer at all.

Allowing clubs to offer 20-30% under market value just encourages clubs to cheat the salary cap. Is it better for a club to risk cheating and be a top 8 side or struggle at the bottom of the table and see the best players go elsewhere. Some clubs currently have better reserves on less money than the bottom 8 sides and those bottom 8 sides won't even be in the running for those signings because a few sides are in a position to cheat.

 

[Bulldog_4_Life]

We need to start expanding the game to the west coast, even a failing team out in Perth will see more kids growing up wanting to play rugby league. Pre-covid i was traveling around Australia quite frequently and anytime I'd be in WA, SA or TAS, you wouldn't see a single NRL jersey, on saturdays you'd have plenty of kids playing junior soccer or aussie rules.

 

[alchemist]

I find it annoying that these invitees into our game from Newcastle and Brisbane or from outside the sport altogether keep criticising Sydney as too cluttered with teams and at least one team needs to be axed or relocated

 

[N4TE]

We need to start expanding the game to the west coast, even a failing team out in Perth will see more kids growing up wanting to play rugby league. Pre-covid i was traveling around Australia quite frequently and anytime I'd be in WA, SA or TAS, you wouldn't see a single NRL jersey, on saturdays you'd have plenty of kids playing junior soccer or aussie rules.

Tasmania is worse NRL gets three lines on the fourth page from the back of the paper just scores only. They couldn’t give a toss

 

[alchemist]

Rugby League cannot have the nation wide appeal that AFL and cricket have and we should not try to copy them

but League can and should dominate the eastern seaboard throughout NSW, ACT & QLD and has the added bonus of New Zealand that can add team(s) and players

I also think the game should be more cynical when it comes to Union and more actively undermine their junior participation levels, playing ranks, sponsors etc... basically, I believe League the better game and the better TV product

 

[bradyk]

It's the salary cap that's causing these problems, not the talent pool. There needs to be an easier way for clubs to recalibrate their salary cap, which atm takes 2-4 years and you're at a high risk of F'ing it up again (if we're taking about building a top 8/top 4 team).

 

[Malla]

Root cause of this is the salary cap.

The only real solution to the notion that there are too many teams in Sydney is fucking off Tigers and moving Dragons down to the Gong permanently.

Souths also don't deserve to be back in the comp. Once Crowe stops funneling money into that club they will soon fall apart.

 

[Bulldog1966]

We need to start expanding the game to the west coast, even a failing team out in Perth will see more kids growing up wanting to play rugby league. Pre-covid i was traveling around Australia quite frequently and anytime I'd be in WA, SA or TAS, you wouldn't see a single NRL jersey, on saturdays you'd have plenty of kids playing junior soccer or aussie rules.

Mate it's fucking hopeless over here in Wait Awhile though..these nuff nuffs here have their heads so far up mainly the Eagles arses i worry how a team would go..of course i would love the idea but the masses are either VERY gayFL biased hence why The Farce have failed once already(admittedly union is shit)and their soccer team barely rates a mention etc etc or change is of great fear to Westralians in general..i believe the WARL still have the Pirates name registered/owned but i just can't see it flying here.

 

[alchemist]

everyone keeps pointing out the weaknesses of the Sydney clubs but what exactly have the regional teams brought to the game besides the Broncos and the Storm?

* the Raiders fielded one of the truly great club sides from 1989-1994 and won 3 GFs... but have a grand total of one GF appearance in the 27 years since
* the Gold Coast has never been a success despite several incarnations from Giants to Gladiators to Sea Gulls to Chargers to Titans
* for all the talk of the Hunter being league heartland, the Knights have a grand total of one and a half premierships in 33 years and seriously, can anyone name a time when the Knights were relevant on the field without a certain A. Johns in the no. 7 jersey? have 4 wooden spoons in that period, too
* it took a decade for the Cowboys to play finals and were only really relevant with Thurston playing when they won their sole premiership
* I am not sure if the Warriors are the sleeping giants of the NRL or just lazy, incompetent Kiwis... a couple GF appearances but no premierships... imagine, the Warriors made the GF in all three grades in 2011 but the FG team has only played finals once since then in 2018... ridiculous

this is no coalition of the winning being held back by the Sydney teams

 

[dogluva]

The talent pool is probably a bit shallow. But the biggest issue is that the salary cap doesn't distribute the talent. As long as top teams are allowed to offer Unders and still get players while offering hidden cash outside the cap we'll see a competition where teams struggle to improve. The insistence that 95%of the cap be spent every year means that even poor players will sometimes get locked up in struggling teams for more than they're worth and prevent struggling clubs from competing to buy significant talent.

I've said for a few years that I'd like to see a system where if any club isn't able to offer 95%of what the highest offer going is, they shouldn't be able to make an offer at all.

Allowing clubs to offer 20-30% under market value just encourages clubs to cheat the salary cap. Is it better for a club to risk cheating and be a top 8 side or struggle at the bottom of the table and see the best players go elsewhere. Some clubs currently have better reserves on less money than the bottom 8 sides and those bottom 8 sides won't even be in the running for those signings because a few sides are in a position to cheat.

Fantastic post Alan and you have probably captured the thoughts of most of us. I reckon at least seven of the teams in the competition are pretty much what would be considered second tier type squads even though there are some talented players included in several of the teams . Looking at the table as it currently stands the bottom sides Cows, Raiders, Knights, Sharks, Tigers, Broncos and Dogs are poles apart from the top sides in talent, ability and performance.

 

[w00t]

Too many NSW teams realistically. 10/16 current NRL teams are from NSW

Also the salary cup needs to go. Teams with strong backers and are able to get third party sponsorships for their players are always going to be ahead of ones that can't. Let the strong survive and move the weaker teams out to the other states

 

[foREVerA7X]

100% Agree. There is not enough talent to justify another team and that should be obvious give the massive divide in the table this year.

IMO, would anyone really give a toss about the Titans if they didn't sign Tino and Fafita? Probably not. Tigers could also bugger off as they are a basket case and have been for years. Would love to cull/merge 2 Syd teams. Grow the game exponentially then expand again

Salary cap does need fixing or abolishing as clearly doesn't work. How, no idea.

 

[SPEARTAKVIDREFS]

Tasmania is worse NRL gets three lines on the fourth page from the back of the paper just scores only. They couldn’t give a toss

So similar to Melbourne

 

[Philmus]

Merge Cronulla and the Dragons and just move them to Wollongong. There's 1 team less and its now out of Sydney.

 

[ALX25]

Bring back the NYC competition.

 

[Shanked]

if they're not going to expand into different states, why don't they start a national academy, then put those players into a draft? like the storm, the giant leaches that they are, set up an academy....on the sunshine coast

 

[KambahOne]

No don't agree. You can't wait until every club is in the 8 before expanding. If you want more talent to choose from, build a bigger pool.