Religious Discussion Thread

[wendog33]

A non heathens view.

Scott Morrison’s partisan interpretation of biblical passages is disturbing for democracy | Kevin Rudd

More fundamentally, it is worrying if the prime minister believes God somehow speaks to him directly

www.theguardian.com

 

[Kelpie03]

Sigh* no fun.

Its simple really. A being will all the power and all the knowledge of past present amd future. Creates beings that can go against his will. And judge them for eternity for going against his will, punish them with eternal pain. When, he could have just made them perfect.

Thats. Petty. Sadistic.

Lets go further. He could stop all the pain in suffering in the world that he has created/allowed. Click his fingers. And boom. But no... If you saw a person with a gun to a childs head about to kill him, and you had the absolute power to stop that person from killing the child, would you?? I'm sure you would, and you would want the same to apply if that child was some child you knew. Hmmm thats. Pretty. Sadistic.

Free will. Funny how can a being with absolute knowledge, knows all the possibilities, all the consequences, knows what will happen. How can that being have free will when he already knows the chain of events and the outcome? Free will: the power of acting without necessity or fate (gods will)


Its either your God isn't all powerful/creator or he isn't all loving. Can't be both.

The problem with you atheists is that you refuse to learn anything of what Jesus taught, The crucifixion of Jesus was well reordered by the Romans who ruled Israel at that time, in fact it is reordered that Pilate was call back to Rome after his failure to stop the Crucifixion.
At the crucifixion their were 2 thieves also crucified with Jesus, One said if you are the son of god why don't you get yourself down and us as well.
I have heard this point millions of times slightly different words perhaps but exactly the same meaning and by many on this forum
The thief on the other side of Jesus said Lord remember me when you come into you Kingdom. So the fact that Jesus was willing to die tells me that the is something else besides our life on this earth.
I chose to believe in God for many reasons, Imagine if all the good works (well reordered) done by Jesus while he was on earth, were actually done by some clever human. That person would have to had to be a con man a fraudster a trickster, such a person would have been clever enough to realise that he had upset the powers to be, and his time was going to be cut short, Therefore he would not have waited around he would have jumped on the nearest donkey, said stuff you Moses I'm going back to Egypt and head headed across the Sinai desert like lightning..
Now it is well reordered that Jesus had 12 apostles one betrayed him and then hung himself, One St James who was barely a teenager went to a Greek island and live a ripe old age (over 90 writing about his time with Jesus) the other 10 were all Martyred for their faith.
I sure that if Jesus was the Fraudster conman, at least some of the a Apostles would eventually have realised it and and saved themselves from been killed.
I have thought of the possibility of having been fooled in regards to God and Religion, have you atheists thought that it might be possible that because you want to live a life of pleasure you have become atheists because you are actually afraid of believing in God and the after life.
BTW if you want see miracles' do some honest research like looking into the life of ST Padre Pio.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

The problem with you atheists is that you refuse to learn anything of what Jesus taught, The crucifixion of Jesus was well reordered by the Romans who ruled Israel at that time, in fact it is reordered that Pilate was call back to Rome after his failure to stop the Crucifixion.
At the crucifixion their were 2 thieves also crucified with Jesus, One said if you are the son of god why don't you get yourself down and us as well.
I have heard this point millions of times slightly different words perhaps but exactly the same meaning and by many on this forum
The thief on the other side of Jesus said Lord remember me when you come into you Kingdom. So the fact that Jesus was willing to die tells me that the is something else besides our life on this earth.
I chose to believe in God for many reasons, Imagine if all the good works (well reordered) done by Jesus while he was on earth, were actually done by some clever human. That person would have to had to be a con man a fraudster a trickster, such a person would have been clever enough to realise that he had upset the powers to be, and his time was going to be cut short, Therefore he would not have waited around he would have jumped on the nearest donkey, said stuff you Moses I'm going back to Egypt and head headed across the Sinai desert like lightning..
Now it is well reordered that Jesus had 12 apostles one betrayed him and then hung himself, One St James who was barely a teenager went to a Greek island and live a ripe old age (over 90 writing about his time with Jesus) the other 10 were all Martyred for their faith.
I sure that if Jesus was the Fraudster conman, at least some of the a Apostles would eventually have realised it and and saved themselves from been killed.
I have thought of the possibility of having been fooled in regards to God and Religion, have you atheists thought that it might be possible that because you want to live a life of pleasure you have become atheists because you are actually afraid of believing in God and the after life.
BTW if you want see miracles' do some honest research like looking into the life of ST Padre Pio.

Saint Padre Pio was considered a fraud by the church initially and several medical examinations stated that his wounds were most likely self-inflicted. He was even excommunicated. He was only later canonised because of the influence he had on the followers. His "miracles" were never fully accepted as actual miracles.

People see what they want to see and believe what they want to believe. It's all part of our inherent cognitive bias, and the mind is quite easily tricked.

 

[Dogna88]

The problem with you atheists is that you refuse to learn anything of what Jesus taught, The crucifixion of Jesus was well reordered by the Romans who ruled Israel at that time, in fact it is reordered that Pilate was call back to Rome after his failure to stop the Crucifixion.
At the crucifixion their were 2 thieves also crucified with Jesus, One said if you are the son of god why don't you get yourself down and us as well.
I have heard this point millions of times slightly different words perhaps but exactly the same meaning and by many on this forum
The thief on the other side of Jesus said Lord remember me when you come into you Kingdom. So the fact that Jesus was willing to die tells me that the is something else besides our life on this earth.
I chose to believe in God for many reasons, Imagine if all the good works (well reordered) done by Jesus while he was on earth, were actually done by some clever human. That person would have to had to be a con man a fraudster a trickster, such a person would have been clever enough to realise that he had upset the powers to be, and his time was going to be cut short, Therefore he would not have waited around he would have jumped on the nearest donkey, said stuff you Moses I'm going back to Egypt and head headed across the Sinai desert like lightning..
Now it is well reordered that Jesus had 12 apostles one betrayed him and then hung himself, One St James who was barely a teenager went to a Greek island and live a ripe old age (over 90 writing about his time with Jesus) the other 10 were all Martyred for their faith.
I sure that if Jesus was the Fraudster conman, at least some of the a Apostles would eventually have realised it and and saved themselves from been killed.
I have thought of the possibility of having been fooled in regards to God and Religion, have you atheists thought that it might be possible that because you want to live a life of pleasure you have become atheists because you are actually afraid of believing in God and the after life.
BTW if you want see miracles' do some honest research like looking into the life of ST Padre Pio.

You have no idea how evidence works aye.....

 

[CrittaMagic69]

Didn't Jesus yeet some kid out of existence because he bumped into when he was a child?!

 

[dogwhisperer]

Saint Padre Pio was considered a fraud by the church initially and several medical examinations stated that his wounds were most likely self-inflicted. He was even excommunicated. He was only later canonised because of the influence he had on the followers. His "miracles" were never fully accepted as actual miracles.

People see what they want to see and believe what they want to believe. It's all part of our inherent cognitive bias, and the mind is quite easily tricked.

Yep, the mind is quite easily tricked especially when satan's greatest trick is making people believe there is no satan.

There's been thousands upon thousands of miracles where events were examined by scientists and doctors and found to be real and unexplainable.

Ever watched the Mike Willesee episode when he witnessed the lady during Good Friday start to get wounds appear on her face, hands and feet right in front of his eyes?

Ever read about the Eucharist(you guys probably just call it the communion wafer) turn into real blood and flesh. It was tested by doctors and scientists and they found the flesh was from the heart organ of a man aged 33 years old, with same blood type as Christ. This happens all around the world.

What about the water baths at Lourdes France, ever read where the water came from, or how it started. Scientists to this day cannot tell you where the water comes from. And there have been many healed even to this day just buy bathing themselves in it.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Yep, the mind is quite easily tricked especially when satan's greatest trick is making people believe there is no satan.

There's been thousands upon thousands of miracles where events were examined by scientists and doctors and found to be real and unexplainable.

Ever watched the Mike Willesee episode when he witnessed the lady during Good Friday start to get wounds appear on her face, hands and feet right in front of his eyes?

Ever read about the Eucharist(you guys probably just call it the communion wafer) turn into real blood and flesh. It was tested by doctors and scientists and they found the flesh was from the heart organ of a man aged 33 years old, with same blood type as Christ. This happens all around the world.

What about the water baths at Lourdes France, ever read where the water came from, or how it started. Scientists to this day cannot tell you where the water comes from. And there have been many healed even to this day just buy bathing themselves in it.

The only recorded flesh Eucharist miracle I'm aware of is the one recorded it the 700s which obviously can't be verified.

The Lourdes miracles stopped after technology came forward.

 

[Dogna88]

First Paragrah.

What a cop out. Please see previous posts about an omnipresent omnipotent omniscient God

Second Paragraph.
Provide the so called evidence. Unexplainable does not equal supernatural . Stop using "we dont knowz therefore God". Silly logic

Third Paragraph
Ever heard of the 1000 upon thousands of well recorded account of people (other than Christians) that have seen or heard or witness "miracles" of their God? Hearsay isn't evidence

Fourth Paragraph.
Please provide the study of a waffer turning into flesh. I turned water into scotch and have ten people who witnessed it, does that make it true?

Fifth Paragraph.
Again provide the study. Unexplainable does not equal supernatural.

 

[dogwhisperer]

The only recorded flesh Eucharist miracle I'm aware of is the one recorded it the 700s which obviously can't be verified.

The Lourdes miracles stopped after technology came forward.

I know you will have an answer to everything to suit you, that's fine. I have no issue with that, each to their own.

These are just a couple that I've mentioned, there has been thousands upon thousands, even to this day.

One even happened to my friend two years who I trust very much(Eucharist turning into flesh and blood) I even have photos of it.

The Mike Willessee one is very interesting indeed. Watch it if you get a chance.

Look up the net Our Lady of Zeitoun in Egypt, in the 60's Our Lady was walking on top of a Church. It's either Her for real, an alien or Satan? Take your pick

 

[Kelpie03]

Didn't Jesus yeet some kid out of existence because he bumped into when he was a child?!

You should explain the word yeet.

Saint Padre Pio was considered a fraud by the church initially and several medical examinations stated that his wounds were most likely self-inflicted. He was even excommunicated. He was only later canonised because of the influence he had on the followers. His "miracles" were never fully accepted as actual miracles.

People see what they want to see and believe what they want to believe. It's all part of our inherent cognitive bias, and the mind is quite easily tricked.

You post is totally false, all those around in the padre believed in him otherwise they would have walked away , obviously you are hell bent on spreading anti Catholic rubbish, because if you were honest you would have to see some of the great works don by its members like the very recent mother Theresa of Calcutta, which is something you have never done.
BTW do you believe that the Catholic Church and ALL absolutely ALL who practice its faith are bad people trying to spread evil.
Padre Pio's stigmata lasted for 50 years, so he had to keep gouging wounds in himself. He would have known that it would be a sacrilege to harm yourself for the sake off publicity, and he would have been disowned by his immediate peers. BTW wounds usually heal either with medical help or on their own but 50 years is along time for one wound to last let alone 5 wounds.
BTW the American air force General and his squadron who were sent to bomb the area were mysteriously diverted away from the Monastery by a mysterious sign. Later when the American Forces took the area the same General went to see what it was about the Monastery, met the Padre and became a Catholic.
You should explain how you became so anti Catholic, perhaps you were brought up that way, or perhaps you want to live a life stile that is totally alien to Christs teachings and you don't want anyone opposing your habits.

 

[dogwhisperer]

First Paragrah.

What a cop out. Please see previous posts about an omnipresent omnipotent omniscient God

Second Paragraph.
Provide the so called evidence. Unexplainable does not equal supernatural . Stop using "we dont knowz therefore God". Silly logic

Third Paragraph
Ever heard of the 1000 upon thousands of well recorded account of people (other than Christians) that have seen or heard or witness "miracles" of their God? Hearsay isn't evidence

Fourth Paragraph.
Please provide the study of a waffer turning into flesh. I turned water into scotch and have ten people who witnessed it, does that make it true?

Fifth Paragraph.
Again provide the study. Unexplainable does not equal supernatural.

Listen buddy, Unexplainable does not equal supernatural, yes we know that. Miracles are never used to prove the existence of God.

I'm just sharing. If it fires you up then just skip my posts please.

You sound like a real angry individual, but not just from these religious threads even in the bulldogs discussions, my gosh.

I couldn't give a rats arse what you believe in. At least the others like South of Heaven and Hacky have a bit of humor to their posts.

 

[Dogna88]

Listen buddy, Unexplainable does not equal supernatural, yes we know that. Miracles are never used to prove the existence of God.

I'm just sharing. If it fires you up then just skip my posts please.

You sound like a real angry individual, but not just from these religious threads even in the bulldogs discussions, my gosh.

I couldn't give a rats arse what you believe in. At least the others like South of Heaven and Hacky have a bit of humor to their posts.

Its a public forum. You are sharing your information in a public forum. You are going to get people that disagree with you and that challenge your statements.

I am replying to you because I choose to reply to you. I want to engage you. Why would I skip your post?

I am more passionate than angry. But yes, if i come across as a prick, i apologise and will sincerely try change how i respond to you individually.
I much prefer your responses/discussion/debate compared to other users in threads of this nature.

 

[dogwhisperer]

Its a public forum. You are sharing your information in a public forum. You are going to get people that disagree with you and that challenge your statements.

I am replying to you because I choose to reply to you. I want to engage you. Why would I skip your post?

I am more passionate than angry. But yes, if i come across as a prick, i apologise and will sincerely try change how i respond to you individually.
I much prefer your responses/discussion/debate compared to other users in threads of this nature.

Yes, I’m very well aware that it’s a public forum and anyone around the world can read it. It’s the internet isn’t it? And yes, of course there’s going to be people like yourself who will disagree and challenge it and yes I expect that.

But to say “Stop using "we dont knowz therefore God". Silly logic” I never said that. Don’t assume things. I was just sharing things that happened. The Church never uses examples of miracles to prove the existence of God.

If you ever want read the Christian view about “Free Will” then there are a few writers out there who have discussed this in great detail.

One of the best treatments I have seen on this is in Robert Sungenis’ book “Not by Faith Alone”.

It’s a huge book, but he covers this in one of the chapters. I think he does a great job.

Obviously, Catholic philosophers such as St Thomas Aquinas and Fr Garrigou Lagrange do very rigorous and in depth treatments of this, but they are going to be well and truly over the heads of most people and almost certainly over the heads of any Protestants.

Sungenis’ book is an excellent place to start.

Sorry I don’t have the time or know enough about it to explain it to you.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

I know you will have an answer to everything to suit you, that's fine. I have no issue with that, each to their own.

These are just a couple that I've mentioned, there has been thousands upon thousands, even to this day.

One even happened to my friend two years who I trust very much(Eucharist turning into flesh and blood) I even have photos of it.

The Mike Willessee one is very interesting indeed. Watch it if you get a chance.

Look up the net Our Lady of Zeitoun in Egypt, in the 60's Our Lady was walking on top of a Church. It's either Her for real, an alien or Satan? Take your pick

I believe that miracles happen, or at least, things that appear to be miracles happen. It's just that when people say that these things are unexplainable, they're usually not unexplainable. They just haven't found the explanation yet. And in many cases these things can't be actually investigated because they happened a long time ago.

For example. Take Our Lady of Zeitoun. This phenomenon was witnessed by probably around 250,000 people (the number of people varies) at random times. Some people who went to witness it reported that they saw light flashes and shadows. This is in line with what most hypothesis say (earthquake lights, reflective glow from another source, refraction, etc)

It's similar to the Jesus on Toast phenomena. A religious person sees it and tells you that it's an image of Jesus. A non-religious person may tell you that it looks like a goat, or a puppy. Tell them that it looks like Jesus before they look at it and they'll most likely see Jesus. This is the usual "Can't unsee-it" effect.

With the Eucharist, there hasn't been any recent recorded event of it. Without recording and investigating then it could be any number of things.

As I said, miracles happen. But they aren't necessarily miracles and without evidence, it's just faith. Which is fine, if you're happy with faith. But I'm not.

 

[CrittaMagic69]

You should explain the word yeet.
You post is totally false, all those around in the padre believed in him otherwise they would have walked away , obviously you are hell bent on spreading anti Catholic rubbish, because if you were honest you would have to see some of the great works don by its members like the very recent mother Theresa of Calcutta, which is something you have never done.
BTW do you believe that the Catholic Church and ALL absolutely ALL who practice its faith are bad people trying to spread evil.
Padre Pio's stigmata lasted for 50 years, so he had to keep gouging wounds in himself. He would have known that it would be a sacrilege to harm yourself for the sake off publicity, and he would have been disowned by his immediate peers. BTW wounds usually heal either with medical help or on their own but 50 years is along time for one wound to last let alone 5 wounds.
BTW the American air force General and his squadron who were sent to bomb the area were mysteriously diverted away from the Monastery by a mysterious sign. Later when the American Forces took the area the same General went to see what it was about the Monastery, met the Padre and became a Catholic.
You should explain how you became so anti Catholic, perhaps you were brought up that way, or perhaps you want to live a life stile that is totally alien to Christs teachings and you don't want anyone opposing your habits.

To throw away at high velocity.

 

[Dogna88]

Yes, I’m very well aware that it’s a public forum and anyone around the world can read it. It’s the internet isn’t it? And yes, of course there’s going to be people like yourself who will disagree and challenge it and yes I expect that.

But to say “Stop using "we dont knowz therefore God". Silly logic” I never said that. Don’t assume things. I was just sharing things that happened. The Church never uses examples of miracles to prove the existence of God.

If you ever want read the Christian view about “Free Will” then there are a few writers out there who have discussed this in great detail.

One of the best treatments I have seen on this is in Robert Sungenis’ book “Not by Faith Alone”.

It’s a huge book, but he covers this in one of the chapters. I think he does a great job.

Obviously, Catholic philosophers such as St Thomas Aquinas and Fr Garrigou Lagrange do very rigorous and in depth treatments of this, but they are going to be well and truly over the heads of most people and almost certainly over the heads of any Protestants.

Sungenis’ book is an excellent place to start.

Sorry I don’t have the time or know enough about it to explain it to you.

I can point you to a number of atheist scholars and speakers who give their views of free will. Its pointless, i don't want you to engage with them.

I am interested in your views. When and if you are bothered to share your view on an omniscient being and free will. More than happy to engage.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

You should explain the word yeet.
You post is totally false, all those around in the padre believed in him otherwise they would have walked away , obviously you are hell bent on spreading anti Catholic rubbish, because if you were honest you would have to see some of the great works don by its members like the very recent mother Theresa of Calcutta, which is something you have never done.
BTW do you believe that the Catholic Church and ALL absolutely ALL who practice its faith are bad people trying to spread evil.
Padre Pio's stigmata lasted for 50 years, so he had to keep gouging wounds in himself. He would have known that it would be a sacrilege to harm yourself for the sake off publicity, and he would have been disowned by his immediate peers. BTW wounds usually heal either with medical help or on their own but 50 years is along time for one wound to last let alone 5 wounds.
BTW the American air force General and his squadron who were sent to bomb the area were mysteriously diverted away from the Monastery by a mysterious sign. Later when the American Forces took the area the same General went to see what it was about the Monastery, met the Padre and became a Catholic.
You should explain how you became so anti Catholic, perhaps you were brought up that way, or perhaps you want to live a life stile that is totally alien to Christs teachings and you don't want anyone opposing your habits.

Pio's wounds were investigated by doctors who said that his wounds were consistent with caustic acid injury.

I'm not anti-Catholic. I never said I was. I personally think the Church does a lot of good. At one stage I spent a lot of time volunteering for an Anglican Church and a bible camp. And I have many people in my life that are still religious.

But I need to find the facts in everything. I need to know what they evidence supports. I'm not going to find the facts by reading the same book over and over again and ignoring anything that contradicts it.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Here's some other interesting miracles:

Magnetic mountains

These are hills that are found in various places around the world. Hills that if you stop your car there and put it in neutral, your car will slowly move up the hill. Amazing miracle.... except it was solved. Turns out the trees slant a little. This combined with the inability to see the horizon makes it look like you're going uphill while you're actually going downhill

The mysterious Marfa UFO/Ghost lights

When you go to the desert area of Marfa at a certain time of night, you see these amazing lights dancing around in the sky. They look like UFOs, or ghosts dancing. It's quite a phenomena. But it turns out that the lights were refractions of the car headlights of people driving down a stretch of road that leads to Marfa. Ironically many of these cars were people coming to see the Marfa lights

We see what we want to see. We have pre-conceived beliefs and those beliefs effect our view of the world.

 

[dogwhisperer]

I believe that miracles happen, or at least, things that appear to be miracles happen. It's just that when people say that these things are unexplainable, they're usually not unexplainable. They just haven't found the explanation yet.

To say they "just haven't found the explanation yet" or "they're usually not unexplainable" is really you're opinion only.
And even if they never find an explanation your get of jail card will be "they just haven't found the explanation yet", which is fine really because I wouldn't expect any other answer from someone without faith. Faith is something you either have or you don't. Just saying

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Yes, I’m very well aware that it’s a public forum and anyone around the world can read it. It’s the internet isn’t it? And yes, of course there’s going to be people like yourself who will disagree and challenge it and yes I expect that.

But to say “Stop using "we dont knowz therefore God". Silly logic” I never said that. Don’t assume things. I was just sharing things that happened. The Church never uses examples of miracles to prove the existence of God.

If you ever want read the Christian view about “Free Will” then there are a few writers out there who have discussed this in great detail.

One of the best treatments I have seen on this is in Robert Sungenis’ book “Not by Faith Alone”.

It’s a huge book, but he covers this in one of the chapters. I think he does a great job.

Obviously, Catholic philosophers such as St Thomas Aquinas and Fr Garrigou Lagrange do very rigorous and in depth treatments of this, but they are going to be well and truly over the heads of most people and almost certainly over the heads of any Protestants.

Sungenis’ book is an excellent place to start.

Sorry I don’t have the time or know enough about it to explain it to you.

I love the concept of "free will" as it's confusing no matter what background you come from.

Obviously there's the issue in religion that Dogna keeps bring up, but there's also the issue in psychology and neurology. The fact that we're just the sum of the chemical reactions that happen in our bodies, any decision we make may be created by things out of our actual control. Then there's the fact that experiments show that humans can make a decision about something before they start to make a decision, as your body reacts in preparation of the outcome before the outcome is reached.

Free will is way too complex.