The Murika Thread

[GA45]

floyd was murdered on the street after being detained so thats probably why this guy didnt want to be detained

dont take the focus off the police, its clear they are going around waiting for an opportunity to shoot black people, they signed up to be police officers thinking about the prospect of shooting black people

its like how school teacher wanted to be teachers because they wanted to teach kids, firefighters wanted to be heroes, well police officers want to arrest black people and shoot them then be the hero of the community for shooting them

Seriously WTF

Are we going to throw all cops into the same basket because a minority have made some terrible decisions?

Also why does Blake get a free ride for his actions before the shooting?

Am I the only one who’s been told that every action has a reaction?

This is why I don’t like to be involved in this sort of BS people only see what they want to see. Claiming all cops want to kill black people is some of that BS.

 

[Dawgfather]

Count me in. I want to watch.

I had a birthday dinner a few years back where I made sure one of my full on Socialist friends sat next to one of my full on Libertarian friends, then I just sat there and waited. It turned out great.

hahahahah classic. I have a few mates who are very 'lefty' but we are still good mates and we enjoy discussing alternate views without killing each other or engaging in culture or race riots.

 

[Flanagun]

@utility half

Why police shoot so many times to bring down a suspect

Police shootings are usually high-stress situations where adrenaline takes over an officer's response -- but some factors explain why officers shoot as many times as they do.

edition.cnn.com

I think to be able to justify that many shots they would need a very strong argument to demonstrate the person they shot was a direct threat to safety......the video shows Blake casually walking around to the driver's door with the cops walking behind him....showing no urgency to try and apprehend him. As he gets to the car they make a half hearted attempt to grab his shirt. They don't appear to be showing much urgency at all and I would argue that it doesn't appear they did all they could to try and prevent the need to use lethal force, even if they can somehow demonstrate there was an imminent threat from the guy. Blake's attorney has stated the use of seven shots was excessive and indicated he plans to make a legal argument on those grounds.... while he is clearly not a non partisan commentator, he knows the law and I'm sure he wouldn't plan a line of legal argument if he did not feel it was valid and had a good chance of success. He has clearly stated seven shots was excessive.

Look, I don't want to argue around in circles with you....let's just see what unfolds in court. Personally, I'd be very surprised if the action that was taken is judged to have been justified. If I'm wrong, I owe you a coke.

In the meantime, in relation to some of the other reasons raised in the aricle.

1. It appears to be one cop, not two firing.
2. I don't think there is any chance the cop could have missed him from that distance, so that reasoning falls a bit flat.
3. The article states they are trained to continually shoot until a threat is neutralised and not to pause. There is a clear pause between the third and fourth shot.

The third point in particular supports the view that there is a serious problem with under trained police in the US.... which is incidentally, another point raised in the article.

 

[Dawgfather]

Look, I don't want to argue around in circles with you....let's just see what unfolds in court.

I didn't know that the officers had been charged? Personally I don't think they'll even be charged but let's wait for the days and weeks ahead to reveal more of the evidence.

Still waiting for police to say whether he had a knife when he was fighting them and also whether there was a weapon in the car.

 

[Mr 95%]

Count me in. I want to watch.

I had a birthday dinner a few years back where I made sure one of my full on Socialist friends sat next to one of my full on Libertarian friends, then I just sat there and waited. It turned out great.

Gee Hacky what a surprise you did something like that! Lol..

Ps. I wanna be there too!

 

[Rodzilla]

Seriously WTF

Are we going to throw all cops into the same basket because a minority have made some terrible decisions?

Also why does Blake get a free ride for his actions before the shooting?

Am I the only one who’s been told that every action has a reaction?

This is why I don’t like to be involved in this sort of BS people only see what they want to see. Claiming all cops want to kill black people is some of that BS.

maybe there are a minority of cops who don't want to shoot black people, but I guarantee the rest of them do and signed up just so they would get their chance

most of them want to do it naturally like wait until the black guy has done something wrong and then they have no choice but to do it, but others are bored of waiting so they have to create their own opportunities

its like how all firefighters want to put out the fire so badly and be the hero to the community that some of them actually start the fire themselves

well back before everyone had cameras I think the idea was to stop black people and then shoot them and say that they were dangerous and reaching for a weapon, then they are instantly a hero to their friends and community

 

[Dawgfather]

btw there is new police audio out indicating Jacob Blake wasn't there to break up a fight between two women. There are indications he was there fighting or causing a disturbance with one of the women.

Direct quote from police dispatch audio: "Complaint says a 'Jacob Blake' isn't supposed to be there and he took the complainant's keys and isn't supposed to be there"

 

[Flanagun]

I didn't know that the officers had been charged? Personally I don't think they'll even be charged but let's wait for the days and weeks ahead to reveal more of the evidence.

Still waiting for police to say whether he had a knife when he was fighting them and also whether there was a weapon in the car.

Jacob Blake's attorney has been interviewed and said what happened was not justified. There are certain to be some form of legal proceedings, whether they involve a criminal charge or a lawsuit.

You really think if he had a knife the video wouldn't have either clearly shown him trying to use it or, the cops disarming him of it? You really think if he had a knife he would have turned away and walked to his car to find a better weapon while the police walked along behind him? You really think if he had a knife and refused to relinquish it, the cops wouldn't have shot him sooner....or would have walked along directly behind him and half heartedly tried to stop him from getting in his car by grabbing his shirt - giving him ample opportunity to spin around and stick them with it? I think if police had any evidence there was a weapon in the car or in his possession, they would have said as much by now.

 

[Dawgfather]

Jacob Blake's attorney has been interviewed and said what happened was not justified.

I'm not being a dick but what else do you expect someones lawyer to do lol. Take the other persons side?

 

[Flanagun]

I'm not being a dick but what else do you expect someones lawyer to do lol. Take the other persons side?

Of course not....the point I am making is that if an attorney is interviewed on national TV over a high profile incident like this, you can be sure there will be legal proceedings of some sort.

 

[Dawgfather]

Of course not....the point I am making is that if an attorney is interviewed on national TV over a high profile incident like this, you can be sure there will be legal proceedings of some sort.

Not when you consider the context of America's race debate right now.

There is fame and money to be made by inserting yourself into the debate, even for a short amount of time. Any lawyer who can represent someone shot by cops right now immediately has their reputation and name placed at the top of pretty much every American online and print media source.

It's still far too early to say what will happen.

What we know so far is that police turned up at the scene originally to deal with a complaint that Jacob Blake was causing a domestic disturbance and had stolen a woman's keys and refusing to believe. The inference is this woman was known to him and he likely had some sort of court order meaning he wasn't supposed to be there (similar to an Australian style AVO).

We know that Jacob Blake resisted arrest and faught with them.

There are indications police told Jacob Blake to drop a knife (no evidence of a knfe yet).

There is no evidence one way or the other whether Jacob Blake had a weapon in his car.

We know police shot Jacob 7 or 8 times (although not confirmed whether 1 or 2 cops discharged bullets).

 

[Rodzilla]

I think the fair thing to do is have a black police force and have them shoot white people to subdue them like this, if nobody has a problem with it then I will be comfortable

 

[Dawgfather]

By the way - it's interesting the level of anger and debate over what is quite possibly an entirely justified police shooting.

But next to zero publicity for a black man executing a 5 year old white kid in his front yard a few weeks ago.

 

[Rodzilla]

By the way - it's interesting the level of anger and debate over what is quite possibly an entirely justified police shooting.

But next to zero publicity for a black man executing a 5 year old white kid in his front yard a few weeks ago.

don't worry the 5 year old kid stole someones candy and ate it, so its ok

 

[Flanagun]

Not when you consider the context of America's race debate right now.

There is fame and money to be made by inserting yourself into the debate, even for a short amount of time. Any lawyer who can represent someone shot by cops right now immediately has their reputation and name placed at the top of pretty much every American online and print media source.

It's still far too early to say what will happen.

What we know so far is that police turned up at the scene originally to deal with a complaint that Jacob Blake was causing a domestic disturbance and had stolen a woman's keys and refusing to believe. The inference is this woman was known to him and he likely had some sort of court order meaning he wasn't supposed to be there (similar to an Australian style AVO).

We know that Jacob Blake resisted arrest and faught with them.

There are indications police told Jacob Blake to drop a knife (no evidence of a knfe yet).

There is no evidence one way or the other whether Jacob Blake had a weapon in his car.

We know police shot Jacob 7 or 8 times (although not confirmed whether 1 or 2 cops discharged bullets).

Lol what good does publicity do a lawyer if it's bad publicity? Hmm, let's hire that lawyer who talked tough in the media but didn't manage to get the matter to court. He may be inept, but at least he's famous and might get us on the news.

If the matter doesn't get to court, I owe you another coke.... but personally, I don't think I'll be buying you any cokes.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Seriously WTF

Are we going to throw all cops into the same basket because a minority have made some terrible decisions?

Also why does Blake get a free ride for his actions before the shooting?

Am I the only one who’s been told that every action has a reaction?

This is why I don’t like to be involved in this sort of BS people only see what they want to see. Claiming all cops want to kill black people is some of that BS.

I get where Rod is coming from. Basically the cops were there to break up a domestic situation between two women. There's nothing to suggest his priors had anything to do with their action.

It's like if a cop random shot a guy and that guy turned out to be a serial killer with bodies in his basement. Sure the cop would be considered a hero, but legally he'd be charged with murder as he had no reason to shoot the guy.

 

[Dawgfather]

Lol what good does publicity do a lawyer if it's bad publicity? Hmm, let's hire that lawyer who talked tough in the media but didn't manage to get the matter to court. He may be inept, but at least he's famous and might get us on the news.

Respectfully, do you work as a lawyer or know any lawyers? A lot of criminal defence barristers craft themselves on getting their name out there. If you don't have a name and a reputation, lawyers don't send work your way.

If the matter doesn't get to court, I owe you another coke.... but personally, I don't think I'll be buying you any cokes.

You may be right. Rayshard Brooks was one example where officers were charged for political purposes. FYI that prosecutor (Paul Howard) lost his re-election and is no longer in the role.

 

[Flanagun]

Respectfully, do you work as a lawyer or know any lawyers? A lot of criminal defence barristers craft themselves on getting their name out there. If you don't have a name and a reputation, lawyers don't send work your way.



You may be right. Rayshard Brooks was one example where officers were charged for political purposes. FYI that prosecutor (Paul Howard) lost his re-election and is no longer in the role.

Name and REPUTATION....you said it. You do not get a good reputation by talking to the media and failing to get a matter to court. It will go to court and you're very naive if you think otherwise.

Paul Howard lost his re-election....well, that clearly proves he was wrong. You can't argue with the court of public opinion....lol

 

[Dawgfather]

Name and REPUTATION....you said it. You do not get a good reputation by talking to the media and failing to get a matter to court. It will go to court and you're very naive if you think otherwise.

Paul Howard lost his re-election....well, that clearly proves he was wrong. You can't argue with the court of public opinion....lol

Personally yes I think the Rayshard Brooks charges are entirely political. But I also agree with you - I do find it odd that America run elections for their prosecutors.

As for Jacob Blake, there's no evidence to date that the officers involved did anything wrong. But this is the entire point - the evidence has not yet come out. Despite the lack of evidence, most American media have had no problem whipping up another race riot and jumping to conclusions, instead of doing the ONLY job that journalists are supposed to do which is to report facts.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Personally yes I think the Rayshard Brooks charges are entirely political. But I also agree with you - I do find it odd that America run elections for their prosecutors.

As for Jacob Blake, there's no evidence to date that the officers involved did anything wrong. But this is the entire point - the evidence has not yet come out. Despite the lack of evidence, most American media have had no problem whipping up another race riot and jumping to conclusions, instead of doing the ONLY job that journalists are supposed to do which is to report facts.

I think it was partially political and partially reactionary. It was definitely the right thing to do, but they only did it out of fear of retribution and fear of riots.