Consolidated Pay Thread

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TwinTurbo

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It's not selective. All of those three were good players who I loved but none of them were stars, all were at the back end of their careers and only Hetherington was an Origin player.

Yeah, we had some good players but those 7 other players weren't so great they could carry a team to a GF. The other 10 I listed were all mediocre at best which proves that Folkes got more out of less and did a great job to get them to the GF.

Most of those 10 players I listed were out of the league all together within a few years of the GF!

I won't go back and forth. If you're arguing that Pay is as good a coach as Folkes was, or could do just as well with the same team, then it's not worth responding.
I’ll keep it simple, aside from the Donkeys the other 19 teams (including us) where spread very thin on talent. As such it’s overly simplistic to pick one team and say that they were average when all of them were average. That particular year is often quoted by many as an example of why the NRL shouldn’t expand the number of teams, not enough talent to go round.


Go Dogs
 

Bazildog

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Seriously back at you........there would be easily 20 coaches I could name that would have done just as well with Slater, Cronk, Inglis, CSmith, Hoffman, Bromwichs etc. For over a decade he had the luxury of a stable core (spine) of future immortals that made those around them look far better than they really were. Take the core 3 away (actually just 2 so far) and the same players don’t look so good (Croft comes to mind).

Like many others you have been sucked into the Bellamy myth, there are far more players that went to Melbourne and failed (Kasiano comes to mind) than those who left Melbourne and failed. Equally there are plenty who left and thrived (Inglis comes to mind).

Maybe I’m the only one but it still amazes me that Bellamy gets a total pass when it comes to the most blatant salary cap cheating ever. I find it hard to believe that almost half the team had signed 2 contracts (one real and one for the NRL) and the coach didn’t suspect a thing, didn’t know, or maybe simply didn’t care. Flanagan gets crucified on here and yet the Sharks cap cheating was peanuts in comparison.

Don’t get me wrong, I think Bellamy is a good coach, but I will never consider him to be in the top echelon until he achieves the same results without 3 future immortals and with a team that doesn’t have the luxury of being the only one in a major city, with years of big$ TPA’s, especially one with media that cares nothing about NRL.

Go Dogs
So let's sum up here.

Apparently you can nominate 20 coaches that would do as good a job or better than Bellamy has with the Storm..

Steve Folkes had a gun side in 98 that led Bridbane 12-10 at half time before getting run over in the second half by this team..

Darren Lockyer
Michael De Vere
Steve Renouf
Darren Smith
Wendell Sailor
Kevin Walters
Allan Langer (c)
Shane Webcke
Phillip Lee
Andrew Gee
Gorden Tallis
Brad Thorn
Tonie Carroll
Michael Hancock
John Plath
Kevin Campion
Petero Civoniceva

Flanagan is now only a cap rorter and not a drug cheat.

And I've been sucked into the Bellamy myth because you don't rate him in the "top echelon" of coaches but apparently Pay is...?

I suggest you look at the many coaches who have learnt thier trade as assistants under Bellamy just like Bellamy did under Bennett. Or perhaps open your ears to the many players who have played under Bellamy that sing his praises starting with Cronk (a Bellamy manufactured halfback) Slater and Smith.

They can't talk highly enough of the man..

One of us is caught in a myth, but it's with Pay and not Bellamy..
 

B-Train

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I’ll keep it simple, aside from the Donkeys the other 19 teams (including us) where spread very thin on talent. As such it’s overly simplistic to pick one team and say that they were average when all of them were average. That particular year is often quoted by many as an example of why the NRL shouldn’t expand the number of teams, not enough talent to go round.


Go Dogs
Wow, you really will go to such painstaking lengths to defend Pay that you will just go back in time and try and re-write history to diminish the accomplishments of a premiership winning coach in Folkes.. Amazing..

Newcastle won in 97 and had the same team with the Johns brothers, Robbie O, Harrigan etc. Canberra still had Mullins, Daley, Stuart, Clyde etc. The Roosters had Fittler, Lam and co. Parra had a great team with 4 of our best players that defected with Pay, Smith, McCracken and Dymock. Norths were a good team then with a bunch of rep players like Taylor. Melbourne had Lazarus and Kimmorley etc and came 3rd that year. Manly made the GF three years straight before 98 and had the same team.. We beat several of those teams to make the finals and then in the finals to make the GF.

But please, don't let the truth get in the way of a good story..
 
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khan

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Wow, you really will go to such painstaking lengths to defend Pay that you will just go back in time and try and re-write history to diminish the accomplishments of a premiership winning coach in Folkes.. Amazing..

Newcastle won in 97 and had the same team with the Johns brothers, Robbie O, Harrigan etc. Canberra still had Mullins, Daley, Stuart, Clyde etc. The Roosters had Fittler, Lam and co. Parra had a great team with 4 of our best players that defected with Pay, Smith, McCracken and Dymock. Norths were a good team then with a bunch of rep players like Taylor. Melbourne had Lazarus and Kimmorley etc and came 3rd that year. We beat several of those teams to make the finals and then in the finals to make the GF.

But please, don't let the truth get in the way of a good story..
Why do people bother with him.
 

NPC83

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It’s going to be really important for the development of Wakeham, Averillo and other young talent coming through to have a strong experienced coach.
 

TwinTurbo

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Wow, you really will go to such painstaking lengths to defend Pay that you will just go back in time and try and re-write history to diminish the accomplishments of a premiership winning coach in Folkes.. Amazing..
Newcastle won in 97 and had the same team with the Johns brothers, Robbie O, Harrigan etc. Canberra still had Mullins, Daley, Stuart, Clyde etc. The Roosters had Fittler, Lam and co. Parra had a great team with 4 of our best players that defected with Pay, Smith, McCracken and Dymock. Norths were a good team then with a bunch of rep players like Taylor. Melbourne had Lazarus and Kimmorley etc and came 3rd that year. Manly made the GF three years straight before 98 and had the same team.. We beat several of those teams to make the finals and then in the finals to make the GF.
But please, don't let the truth get in the way of a good story..
But compared to the Donkeys team they were all very short on overall talent. Sure there were good players scattered amongst the teams, but across the field they had glaring deficiencies.

NEWS LTD said:
After the first week of the Premiership Tournament it was clear that the 1998 Broncos were overwhelmingly strong title favourites and when we dig into the stats we can see why. They have the third greatest number of 13+ wins among remaining teams and the highest average winning margin. While these numbers are impressive, it’s worth remembering what kind of competition the NRL was in 1998. In the bloated, newly united competition there were 20 teams, which meant that the footballing talent was spread way too thin. This created a serious world of the haves and the have nots, and nobody had more than Brisbane. That’s not to say the 1998 Broncos were flat track bullies, but all stats need to be examined in the proper context.

Might I remind you of my post regarding your claim of me diminishing the accomplishments on Steve Folks (perhaps another example of your selective memory loss?)
Not of course taking anything away from Steve Folks, who I rate higher than Bellamy for what he achieved with far less talented teams.
Go Dogs
 
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DoggyStyla

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Pay is on the news tonight, saying he would love grub back! WTF is wrong with that ****? Let’s buy more injury prone players!!
 

boggie23

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If Pay brings Reynolds back. Then I think it should be career suicide.

We are lacking in so many key positions. Maybe he should figure out a way on how to improve them before coming out in the media stating that he is open to conversation with tigers about a homecoming for josh.
 

TwinTurbo

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If Pay brings Reynolds back. Then I think it should be career suicide.
We are lacking in so many key positions. Maybe he should figure out a way on how to improve them before coming out in the media stating that he is open to conversation with tigers about a homecoming for josh.
Not that I'm suggesting it, but........................what if the Tigers pay Reynolds full freight for this year and half of next year, plus throw in, say, the Leilua brothers. Still think it's career suicide?
The fact is we don't know what the deal could be, we have the upper hand in any negotiations, so ask for whatever we want/need.

Go Dogs
 

boggie23

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Not that I'm suggesting it, but........................what if the Tigers pay Reynolds full freight for this year and half of next year, plus throw in, say, the Leilua brothers. Still think it's career suicide?
The fact is we don't know what the deal could be, we have the upper hand in any negotiations, so ask for whatever we want/need.

Go Dogs
If we sign Reynolds and still have tolman, Marshall king, dwz, Lewis, Holland, Crichton plating major roles then it definitely is career suicide.

Unless we can build a premiership contending team we shouldn’t be thinking of bringing players home for the feel good story.

Let not forget Reynolds has played a dozen games or so in his 3rd year at the tigers. We have already had 2 players in recent years who struggled to play a handful of games without injury. Don’t think we need to recruit Josh unless we shore up positions that are needed (fullback, centre, half, hooker, second row). If we have space after building a team that can compete then sure. Josh would be a decent player in the 17 jersey to come on for 10-15 mins and use his energy and insanity to break open a close game.
 

DoggyStyla

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Not that I'm suggesting it, but........................what if the Tigers pay Reynolds full freight for this year and half of next year, plus throw in, say, the Leilua brothers. Still think it's career suicide?
The fact is we don't know what the deal could be, we have the upper hand in any negotiations, so ask for whatever we want/need.

Go Dogs
Man you talk absolute crap! The brothers arnt coming with him!
 

El Padrino

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Not that I'm suggesting it, but........................what if the Tigers pay Reynolds full freight for this year and half of next year, plus throw in, say, the Leilua brothers. Still think it's career suicide?
The fact is we don't know what the deal could be, we have the upper hand in any negotiations, so ask for whatever we want/need.

Go Dogs
again-
images (78).jpeg
 
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