Consolidated Pay Thread

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Spoonman84

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Ah, Bellamy, I challenged him once at a press conference/meet and greet about not being recognised as a coaching great because at Melbourne he had 4 or so future immortals. That he wouldn't ever get the recognition that he deserves until he took a mid tier team and turned them into premiers. He told me to EFFOFF, which means it must have hit home. Maybe he might just take up the challenge in 2022.

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I doubt it hit home he probably hears it from nuffies all the time and couldn't care less what you think.
 

TwinTurbo

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I doubt it hit home he probably hears it from nuffies all the time and couldn't care less what you think.
I thought that, but he responded, quickly and with some passion. Plenty of people asked questions that he simply ignored, not that one though, it was like a seagull on a chip.

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Shire Dog

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I thought that, but he responded, quickly and with some passion. Plenty of people asked questions that he simply ignored, not that one though, it was like a seagull on a chip.

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No doubt that he took offence to your very pointed question
But I agree that you have a fair point,without those four standout players what would have been
A bit like saints winning premierships and dominating for a decade years ago
Easy when your fielding the entire Aus team
We need at least 2 or 3 to be a real force again one day.
 

Paulie Gualtieri

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Ah, Bellamy, I challenged him once at a press conference/meet and greet about not being recognised as a coaching great because at Melbourne he had 4 or so future immortals. That he wouldn't ever get the recognition that he deserves until he took a mid tier team and turned them into premiers. He told me to EFFOFF, which means it must have hit home. Maybe he might just take up the challenge in 2022.

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Sounds like a really awkward forgetful moment for Bellamy in his life and a life accomplishment moment for random weirdo
 

TwinTurbo

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No doubt that he took offence to your very pointed question
But I agree that you have a fair point,without those four standout players what would have been
A bit like saints winning premierships and dominating for a decade years ago
Easy when your fielding the entire Aus team
We need at least 2 or 3 to be a real force again one day.
I wasn't the first, nor will I be the last, to put that particular question to him. It will hang over his head forever, unless he does something about it.

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DT

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Don't forget he was unemployed until today..yes technical but reality..
My point is he has said nothing at all.

Has he even come out and said something about the club sacking JO and CHN?

Exactly Dragqueens have at least said that, Pay has said zip!
 

TwinTurbo

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Sounds like a really awkward forgetful moment for Bellamy in his life and a life accomplishment moment for random weirdo
I admit I did it to elicit a response and I got one. But plainly, judging by the response from the room, it was a valid question that many have asked and/or would like to ask.

Seriously, do you think that his record stacks up against other coaches that have won championships with multiple teams? With many having dragged that team up from previously poor records?


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Shire Dog

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I wasn't the first, nor will I be the last, to put that particular question to him. It will hang over his head for ever, unless he does something about it.

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He knows what’s what
The guy got a very lucky hand dealt to him
Anyway I’m just waiting for our great club to pull the trigger on some decent names and once again become a force
I’m hedging all my bets on this board to pull us out of this nightmare
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DoggyStyla

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There are a lot of current NRL coaches off contract at the end of 2021, 8 in fact. So there is some logic in holding out on signing a new coach until a demonstrably/proven good one is available.

Personally I'm watching how Holbrook goes at the Titans, if he lifts their standards (I don't expect miracles) then he might well be a good option.


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Infact*
 

DoggyStyla

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Don't forget he was unemployed until today..yes technical but reality..
Mate in his current role, one would think he would go the extra mile! He lacks communication skills
 
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Bazildog

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I admit I did it to elicit a response and I got one. But plainly, judging by the response from the room, it was a valid question that many have asked and/or would like to ask.

Seriously, do you think that his record stacks up against other coaches that have won championships with multiple teams? With many having dragged that team up from previously poor records?


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Seriously Twin..get off the sauce champ. Bennett was easily the goat until Bellamy appeared. Go back and look at the list of players that came and conquered at the Storm and then left. Bellamy attracts players that want to be their best and he brings it out in them. You are kidding yourself, he is the Goat.

P.S If you try to put Dean in the same hemisphere as Bellamy you are also a goat, but the makes nice Greek cheese kind and not GREATEST OF ALL TIME kind...
 
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TwinTurbo

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Seriously Twin..get off the sauce champ. Bennett was easily the goat until Bellamy appeared. Go back and look at the list of players that came and conquered at the Storm and then left. Bellamy attracts players that want to be their best and he brings it out in them. You are kidding yourself, he is the Goat.
Seriously back at you........there would be easily 20 coaches I could name that would have done just as well with Slater, Cronk, Inglis, CSmith, Hoffman, Bromwichs etc. For over a decade he had the luxury of a stable core (spine) of future immortals that made those around them look far better than they really were. Take the core 3 away (actually just 2 so far) and the same players don’t look so good (Croft comes to mind).

Like many others you have been sucked into the Bellamy myth, there are far more players that went to Melbourne and failed (Kasiano comes to mind) than those who left Melbourne and failed. Equally there are plenty who left and thrived (Inglis comes to mind).

Maybe I’m the only one but it still amazes me that Bellamy gets a total pass when it comes to the most blatant salary cap cheating ever. I find it hard to believe that almost half the team had signed 2 contracts (one real and one for the NRL) and the coach didn’t suspect a thing, didn’t know, or maybe simply didn’t care. Flanagan gets crucified on here and yet the Sharks cap cheating was peanuts in comparison.

Don’t get me wrong, I think Bellamy is a good coach, but I will never consider him to be in the top echelon until he achieves the same results without 3 future immortals and with a team that doesn’t have the luxury of being the only one in a major city, with years of big$ TPA’s, especially one with media that cares nothing about NRL.

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speedy2460

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Its OK for some to say a good coach will bring out the best in players. Some coaches can, providing the players have the ability.
A good coach will never be able to improve sub standard players to an acceptable level. Thats what Dean Pay is faced with.
 

B-Train

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Its OK for some to say a good coach will bring out the best in players. Some coaches can, providing the players have the ability.
A good coach will never be able to improve sub standard players to an acceptable level. Thats what Dean Pay is faced with.
I completely disagree. Steve Folkes took us to a GF in 98 in his first season as coach when our starting 17 had a bunch of mediocre players or fringe first graders in it.

Gavin Lester, Shane Marteene, Corey Hughes in the halves, Robert Relf, Tony Grimaldi, Steve Hughes, Steve Reardon, David Thompson, Troy Stone...

Now I love some of those players like Grimaldi, Reardon and Relf but we had no business even making the GF against the most stacked Brisbane team of all time.

Those ten players I listed are worse than most of our current squad talent wise yet Folkes took us to the GF in a 20 team comp! Dean Pay could not have gotten that team to the GF, let alone finish higher than 5th last, which seems to be his specialty.
 
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TwinTurbo

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I completely disagree. Steve Folkes took us to a GF in 98 in his first season as coach when our starting 17 had a bunch of mediocre players or fringe first graders in it.

Gavin Lester, Shane Marteene, Corey Hughes in the halves, Robert Relf, Tony Grimaldi, Steve Hughes, Steve Reardon, David Thompson, Troy Stone...

Now I love some of those players like Grimaldi, Reardon and Relf but we had no business even making the GF against the most stacked Brisbane team of all time.

Those ten players I listed are worse than most of our current squad talent wise yet Folkes took us to the GF in a 20 team comp! Dean Pay could not have gotten that team to the GF, let alone finish higher than 5th last, which seems to be his specialty.
Rather selective picking there, you left out of the spine Silva, Polly and Hetherington. How much would you give to have a spine like that today?

The forwards weren't half bad with Britt, Price and Norton, one of our best ball playing props ever. Plus of course the best or second best (depending on what stats you use) goal kicker in NRL history in Halligan with Talua in the centres.

I know it's painful, it is for me anyway, but we did lose 38 to 12. Plus it was the first unified year after SuperLeague, there were 20 teams and as a result the talent was spread very thin. So it's all very well to critique our team but their record needs to be looked at in the context of their opposition. They did finish 9th so only 2 places higher than Pay's record with us thus far, so wouldn't have even made the finals these days.

Not of course taking anything away from Steve Folks, who I rate higher than Bellamy for what he achieved with far less talented teams.

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B-Train

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Rather selective picking there, you left out of the spine Silva, Polly and Hetherington. How much would you give to have a spine like that today?

The forwards weren't half bad with Britt, Price and Norton, one of our best ball playing props ever. Plus of course the best or second best (depending on what stats you use) goal kicker in NRL history in Halligan with Talua in the centres.

I know it's painful, it is for me anyway, but we did lose 38 to 12. Plus it was the first unified year after SuperLeague, there were 20 teams and as a result the talent was spread very thin. So it's all very well to critique our team but their record needs to be looked at in the context of their opposition. They did finish 9th so only 2 places higher than Pay's record with us thus far, so wouldn't have even made the finals these days.

Not of course taking anything away from Steve Folks, who I rate higher than Bellamy for what he achieved with far less talented teams.

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It's not selective. All of those three were good players who I loved but none of them were stars, all were at the back end of their careers and only Hetherington was an Origin player.

Yeah, we had some good players but those 7 other players weren't so great they could carry a team to a GF. The other 10 I listed were all mediocre at best which proves that Folkes got more out of less and did a great job to get them to the GF.

Most of those 10 players I listed were out of the league all together within a few years of the GF!

I won't go back and forth. If you're arguing that Pay is as good a coach as Folkes was, or could do just as well with the same team, then it's not worth responding.
 
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