Opinion Dogged division over player dividends

CrittaMagic69

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Thanks, Marleys a big boy I’m sure he can speak for himself.

And I seem to recall him praising the signing of Sue, so I’d assume that isn’t what he was saying. Because that would again be quite hypocritical.
I'm not a big boy, I'm only 7.
 

CrittaMagic69

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I don't think Marley is saying Burr was a huge loss and he would have made a huge difference to the team.

He's saying he didn't have an offer from any club until just before the start of last season when the Warriors signed him on a minimum deal.

Sue would have cost more and was signed for two years but was worse than Burr last season. No one is crying that Burr was released, he's just saying signing Sue was a waste of money. Plus he still has another year left on his deal while taking up a valuable squad spot.
Yes. ISP player of they year, busted his arse and had decent skills and brought a few things to the table that others didn't. Where was his reward for all the hard work? We hear about promoting juniors and all that yet this bloke was the perfect example. Left the club and returned years later and scrapped his way back to be deserving of an opportunity. This could've been an example for others to look up to, instead the club didn't even offer him a position in 30.

For me the club has made it's mind up early on a fair few players and they are going to great lengths to give them every opportunity while others also deserving of an opportunity seem to get shafted. There's also something fishy going on with our development contracts and as a result we lost Talau to the Tigers who made his debut at 19 and is set to start the season in the centres.
 

bradtalo

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Played through the middle and everything i've been told is that we couldn't find a spot for him so he left the club.
The thing is some fans praise the club for not spending on high profile players while developing from within but if we're not retaining our ISP "Player of the Year" from a year when we not only win the local comp but also the national comp then I don't know how anyone can claim the club is doing a good job at development from within.
 

B-Train

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Yes. ISP player of they year, busted his arse and had decent skills and brought a few things to the table that others didn't. Where was his reward for all the hard work? We hear about promoting juniors and all that yet this bloke was the perfect example. Left the club and returned years later and scrapped his way back to be deserving of an opportunity. This could've been an example for others to look up to, instead the club didn't even offer him a position in 30.

For me the club has made it's mind up early on a fair few players and they are going to great lengths to give them every opportunity while others also deserving of an opportunity seem to get shafted. There's also something fishy going on with our development contracts and as a result we lost Talau to the Tigers who made his debut at 19 and is set to start the season in the centres.
Losing Talau was extremely disappointing for a rebuilding "family" club like ours which is supposed to be focusing on retaining and promoting their best junior prospects. Hopefully it doesn't come back to haunt us. And I hope the same mistake isn't made with Wakeham and Taas.
 

Horse

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Maybe next time read what someone posts objectively and more thoroughly instead of jumping to conclusions and people won't feel the need to interject.
My post was based on facts. Your interjection was based on an incorrect assumption. I’d say you’re the one in the wrong here
 

B-Train

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My post was based on facts. Your interjection was based on an incorrect assumption. I’d say you’re the one in the wrong here
No problems Horse. It was a pleasure as always. It must be nice always being right and knowing everything.
 

Horse

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Exactly so how can some on here praise the club for focusing on our juniors. It seems it's okay when the club sheds promising players and replaces them with average players from other teams but no we just don't want to replace them with high profile players on big coin
Mate, Burr is a 27 year old journeyman. His career has never found any momentum in the top grade as he’s quite error prone and can come up with a few misses in defence. I’m scratching my head as to how letting him go to the Warriors is causing outrage on here. Classic Kennel
 

Natboy

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Yes I know that but all those on here against spending big on big name players are saying the club is doing the right thing by focusing on building up our lower grades. What I'm saying is how is the club doing that if they're letting go 3 of who were the definite best of our reserve grade team. You can't have it both ways saying the club is good at building up our juniors while they're also letting go some of the best in our lower grades. Yes hindsight is a wonderful thing but when we won the ISP local and national comps last year AT THAT TIME I don't think the club felt that Cleeland MOM in the ISP Grand Final, Woolford MOM in the national GF from memory and Burr our ISP "Player of the Year" were all shithouse. So why did they let them go ?

By the standards of heaps of people on here they should have all been playing first grade with us. In the case of Cleeland I actually agree he should have got a shot at some stage during his 2 seasons with us especially as we couldn't score points. A few on here also thought Woolford deserved a shot ahead of Lichaa for the start of this season IF we had retained him.
There’s a reason Cleeland hasn’t nor ever will play first grade
 

Horse

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Could I get your thoughts on the releasing of Nu Brown and Fran Tualau?

I recall a fair bit of outrage from your end about them not being in the 17 let alone not at the club
 
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CrittaMagic69

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Could I get your thoughts on the releasing of Nu Brown and Fran Tualau?

I recall a fair bit of outrage from your end about them not being in the 17 let alone not at the club
Tualau never kicked on from his decent start to firstgrade like I expected him too, Brown I simply wanted to get a genuine opportunity because he provided spark that others didn't have but instead he got junk minutes.

As usual you twist things to make it out as if I was claiming these guys are future immortals, that is simply not true in the slightest and you fucking know it. Players need to get proper opportunities to prove themselves and from what I can see certain players are getting more of a go than others.

As usual you couldn't care less because you're still jerking yourself silly because we have the names "Anderson" or "Pay" associated with the club that you once idolised as kid and can't accept that something they might do is actually wrong. The only bloke that's worse is fucking speedy.

And on Burr, bloke was terrific value for the Warriors and no worse than the likes of Elliott, Smith, Sue, etc this season and arguably better than them (you won't accept that), but instead of rewarding our ISP player of the season the club kicked him to the curb. He had done more then enough for an opportunity, more than enough to be depth for the upcoming season...but instead we go out and recruit others and on likely bigger wages? You still can't see where I'm coming from with this argument? No?

If not then just fuck off, sick of you constantly prodding posters and acting like an absolute fuckwit and digging through the history books to try and find something to one up someone to suit your narrative.
 

Tassie Devil

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I think you missed the point. It’s got nothing to do with a Moore/Anderson/Pay blueprint it’s about the club having one at all..

The Hasler/Cleal/Dib format was ignore the juniors and try and bastardise a Premiership with a 3-5 year window. It didn’t work although it produced 2 GF’s and left a long term mess both salary cap/recruitment wise and junior programs.

Any business worth pissing on has a company vision/culture and hirer staff that appear to be able to fit into its structure.

Deals done over a Chinese feed are long gone unfortunately and it’s been replaced with greedy player managers telling their man is “the man” or he is the next big thing and deserves to be Fullback/Captain/etc and to always be paid more..

I don’t have a problem with Latrell or anyone getting paid $1mil or more if the market says yes. If he had got in front of our management and said take me in and I will will play my guts out whether at 5/8 centre or fullback and help you win a premiership, he would already be wearing a blue and white jersey.

Instead he more than likely demanded fullback and star status and got a thanks but no thanks.

It doesn’t matter what anyone thinks, if those in charge have a plan and a set of standards for all who join, it simply is fit in or go somewhere else.
Best post I've read in a while.
 
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coach

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I think you missed the point. It’s got nothing to do with a Moore/Anderson/Pay blueprint it’s about the club having one at all..

The Hasler/Cleal/Dib format was ignore the juniors and try and bastardise a Premiership with a 3-5 year window. It didn’t work although it produced 2 GF’s and left a long term mess both salary cap/recruitment wise and junior programs.

Any business worth pissing on has a company vision/culture and hirer staff that appear to be able to fit into its structure.

Deals done over a Chinese feed are long gone unfortunately and it’s been replaced with greedy player managers telling their man is “the man” or he is the next big thing and deserves to be Fullback/Captain/etc and to always be paid more..

I don’t have a problem with Latrell or anyone getting paid $1mil or more if the market says yes. If he had got in front of our management and said take me in and I will will play my guts out whether at 5/8 centre or fullback and help you win a premiership, he would already be wearing a blue and white jersey.

Instead he more than likely demanded fullback and star status and got a thanks but no thanks.

It doesn’t matter what anyone thinks, if those in charge have a plan and a set of standards for all who join, it simply is fit in or go somewhere else.
Spot on bazil dog
 

B-Train

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I think you missed the point. It’s got nothing to do with a Moore/Anderson/Pay blueprint it’s about the club having one at all..

The Hasler/Cleal/Dib format was ignore the juniors and try and bastardise a Premiership with a 3-5 year window. It didn’t work although it produced 2 GF’s and left a long term mess both salary cap/recruitment wise and junior programs.

Any business worth pissing on has a company vision/culture and hirer staff that appear to be able to fit into its structure.

Deals done over a Chinese feed are long gone unfortunately and it’s been replaced with greedy player managers telling their man is “the man” or he is the next big thing and deserves to be Fullback/Captain/etc and to always be paid more..

I don’t have a problem with Latrell or anyone getting paid $1mil or more if the market says yes. If he had got in front of our management and said take me in and I will will play my guts out whether at 5/8 centre or fullback and help you win a premiership, he would already be wearing a blue and white jersey.

Instead he more than likely demanded fullback and star status and got a thanks but no thanks.

It doesn’t matter what anyone thinks, if those in charge have a plan and a set of standards for all who join, it simply is fit in or go somewhere else.
As usual yours is a very insightful and articulate post Bazil Dog and I appreciate the points you make...

One thing I would argue though is with the way modern day footballers think and how you do have to stroke their egos and finesse them more than ever, what would make any player that is in demand from other clubs choose us over them right now? Especially when our recent history is so poor and our coach is still unproven.

The problem is, most players have chosen to sign somewhere else. And they probably will continue to look elsewhere until we've shown sustained progress (not just the back end of the last two seasons) or success or when we've shown a genuine intent to make an impact in the market by improving the squad the way Moore did with Ennis, Kimmorley, Morris, Staggs, Hannant, Pritchard and Eastwood...

Those players made such an impact that we went from being cellar dwellers to being a top four team shortly after. We need signings like those to transform the team along with our developing youngsters to take the next step. Hopefully the club can sign similar calibre players but with less and less quality players available by the week, it might be easier said than done.
 

Tassie Devil

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As usual yours is a very insightful and articulate post Bazil Dog and I appreciate the points you make...

One thing I would argue though is with the way modern day footballers think and how you do have to stroke their egos and finesse them more than ever, what would make any player that is in demand from other clubs choose us over them right now? Especially when our recent history is so poor and our coach is still unproven.

The problem is, most players have chosen to sign somewhere else. And they probably will continue to look elsewhere until we've shown sustained progress (not just the back end of the last two seasons) or success or when we've shown a genuine intent to make an impact in the market by improving the squad the way Moore did with Ennis, Kimmorley, Morris, Staggs, Hannant, Pritchard and Eastwood...

Those players made such an impact that we went from being cellar dwellers to being a top four team shortly after. We need signings like those to transform the team along with our developing youngsters to take the next step. Hopefully the club can sign similar calibre players but with less and less quality players available by the week, it might be easier said than done.
Is it concerning we haven't signed players yet when clearly we need to? Yes but also no. My honest question which I've constantly repeated to people on here over the last few weeks or so is which players have signed for other clubs so far? There's a lot of heresay but from my knowledge there's still a lot of big fish out there still on the market.

I do agree though that there is a concern that we're not attractive enough for those players to already have signed with us, and your evaluation of haivng to 'stroke egos' is more important in this day and age. But in saying that we all need to be realistic and see the situation we're in. It's going to take a few more years for us to be back to being a club you want to play for ... that's the reality of it I believe. We're not a top 8 club, let alone one challenging for the title. We've got an unproven coach with a team without clear stars. It's going to take time.
 

B-Train

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Is it concerning we haven't signed players yet when clearly we need to? Yes but also no. My honest question which I've constantly repeated to people on here over the last few weeks or so is which players have signed for other clubs so far? There's a lot of heresay but from my knowledge there's still a lot of big fish out there still on the market.

I do agree though that there is a concern that we're not attractive enough for those players to already have signed with us, and your evaluation of haivng to 'stroke egos' is more important in this day and age. But in saying that we all need to be realistic and see the situation we're in. It's going to take a few more years for us to be back to being a club you want to play for ... that's the reality of it I believe. We're not a top 8 club, let alone one challenging for the title. We've got an unproven coach with a team without clear stars. It's going to take time.
I think we proved back then with Moore's signings that you can rebuild quite quickly if it's done the right way. Even Des took us from the spoon to a minor premiership and a GF in his first year.

Why they didn't make Robson a priority when he wouldn't have cost a tonne is beyond me. Guys like Marsters, Scott, Lomax, Matterson to name a few are or were available for 500k or less and all have rep potential.

Plenty of other young talents like Twal, Garner, CHT, Papenhuyzen, Fifita etc have re-signed or will re-sign shortly which further reduces our options.
 
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DinkumDog

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Yes. ISP player of they year, busted his arse and had decent skills and brought a few things to the table that others didn't. Where was his reward for all the hard work? We hear about promoting juniors and all that yet this bloke was the perfect example. Left the club and returned years later and scrapped his way back to be deserving of an opportunity. This could've been an example for others to look up to, instead the club didn't even offer him a position in 30.

For me the club has made it's mind up early on a fair few players and they are going to great lengths to give them every opportunity while others also deserving of an opportunity seem to get shafted. There's also something fishy going on with our development contracts and as a result we lost Talau to the Tigers who made his debut at 19 and is set to start the season in the centres.
I guess one way to look at this is when he left we were well into the reign of the Despot and by that time the junior program was disregarded if not totally forgotten and the likes of T. Williams were brought in.

So yes, whilst that was a ‘club’ decision it was part of a clearly failed experiment which is in the process of being rebuilt.
 
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