Opinion Dogged division over player dividends

[belmore_utd]

Market value vs paying overs vs value to playing group...

Everybody here surely knows the majority of high profile recruits don't provide value for $
Most of them flop horribly in fact.

With that in mind, can we all take a breath before we criticize this board and playing group and football staff before sticking the knife in when we miss out on an ??upgrade?? to our roster

I am by no means pro board or Pay just simply a fan who wants the success of our club to be established with a long term vision.

If a potential recruit might possibly destabilize the playing group because of a bad attitude or training practices than surely that detracts from the values Pay and staff are trying to instill within the squad.

I am backing them to get the recruitment right with a hard working, dedicated senior leadership group steering the way.
The last thing we need right now is a Hayne or Mitchell types taking up large portions of the cap sewing the seeds of doubt and contempt.

Go after the young hungry players without a chip on their shoulder. Sure pay THEM players overs to an extent. But I trust the club to be damn sure that if we do sign a once in a generation player that it will come with a once in a generation attitude and training practices.

This club is beginning to establish an identity again, and it is one to be admired not admonished. It is an identy of hard work and backing up your team mates in defence. An identity of punching above your weight and not folding because the chips are stacked against you.

The Haynes and Mitchell's of the world do not fit the mould. And at the price their types demand they should be setting the example not leaching off everyone else's hard work and stealing the glory.

This is the mould that has seen our highly touted juniors of the past step up and exceed expectations. This is the mould that has seen once average cup players put on a Bulldogs jersey and become a vital dog in the wheel. This is the mould that used to seperate us from the faders and the also rans.

This is the blueprint for the Canterbury way. Hate to say it but either fit in or fuck off!

 

[DinkumDog]

Excellent post. Could not agree more.

 

[Raysie]

Agreed, although we dont really know any truth at all in regards to Mitchell. The kid seems to cop it in the media with most of the rumours flying around not being true.

 

[belmore_utd]

Agreed, although we dont really know any truth at all in regards to Mitchell. The kid seems to cop it in the media with most of the rumours flying around not being true.

I don't want to be too speculative here but think of the physique that other young elite players have had at a similar age and position. Latrell wants to be a fullback, but he would be the fattest fuck fb I have ever seen if he did transition. He has already had several amounts of time out of the game for family or personal issues and I have never seen him come back to the game looking fit. Doesnt fit the mould imo

 

[bradyk]

There are just some people who don't think we have to pay overs for anyone that isn't an opportunist or reject player that no one else in a better position then us (almost every club is) wants. We don't have to sign marquee players but we're going to have to pay overs as well on top or emerging players in our current situation. As long as everyone gets that there isn't an issue.

Other people and I are going to be upset (some more then others) when we miss out on targets that we thought were ideal.

Time will tell if the board gets it right and they know more then we do. That's where we need to have patience. There shouldn't be people going hard on the club, board and Pay yet. I think that's more warranted when the 2020 season starts if there is no progress in recruitment. The more players that get locked up the more we're going to be concerned tho. Even that is assuming 2021 is our target year to be competitive.

 

[belmore_utd]

There are just some people who don't think we have to pay overs for anyone that isn't an opportunist or reject player that no one else in a better position then us (almost every club is) wants. We don't have to sign marquee players but we're going to have to pay overs on top or emerging players in our current situation. As long as everyone gets that there isn't an issue.

The consensus is that every, more talented than what we already have player will add to the squad though and it's just not the case. Especially with the entitled attitudes of most of the youth these days.

Not saying we won't have to pay overs for elite talent, just saying that when we eventually do, I trust the t's will be crossed and the i's dotted to ensure that they are fitting the mould and not a detraction from the playing group.

Can't even fault the club for not paying overs for Mitchell, Ramien and Scott and anyone like them. Doesnt matter if we need to strengthen x position.
Don't need players who have bad habits we need players who instill good ones.

 

[bradyk]

The consensus is that every, more talented than what we already have player will add to the squad though and it's just not the case. Especially with the entitled attitudes of most of the youth these days.

Not saying we won't have to pay overs for elite talent, just saying that when we eventually do, I trust the t's will be crossed and the i's dotted to ensure that they are fitting the mould and not a detraction from the playing group.

Can't even fault the club for not paying overs for Mitchell, Ramien and Scott and anyone like them. Doesnt matter if we need to strengthen x position.
Don't need players who have bad habits we need players who instill good ones.

So safe to say we won't be signing Leilua then .

Seriously tho I agree with what you're saying. I do think there is enough talent available to make us competitive for 2021 tho (I don't want to sign players especially for 2020 that will jeopardise our future recruitment). Latrell is a risk due to what you've said which I personally think is worth all things considered but it doesn't matter what I think it's what the club thinks! They're the ones that will be praised or criticised with the outcome.

 

[Scoooby]

There are just some people who don't think we have to pay overs for anyone that isn't an opportunist or reject player that no one else in a better position then us (almost every club is) wants. We don't have to sign marquee players but we're going to have to pay overs as well on top or emerging players in our current situation. As long as everyone gets that there isn't an issue.

Other people and I are going to be upset (some more then others) when we miss out on targets that we thought were ideal.

Time will tell if the board gets it right and they know more then we do. That's where we need to have patience. There shouldn't be people going hard on the club, board and Pay yet. I think that's more warranted when the 2020 season starts if there is no progress in recruitment. The more players that get locked up the more we're going to be concerned tho. Even that is assuming 2021 is our target year to be competitive.

PAY OVERS ..!! No pun intended

 

[Alan79]

Market value vs paying overs vs value to playing group...

Everybody here surely knows the majority of high profile recruits don't provide value for $
Most of them flop horribly in fact.

With that in mind, can we all take a breath before we criticize this board and playing group and football staff before sticking the knife in when we miss out on an ??upgrade?? to our roster

I am by no means pro board or Pay just simply a fan who wants the success of our club to be established with a long term vision.

If a potential recruit might possibly destabilize the playing group because of a bad attitude or training practices than surely that detracts from the values Pay and staff are trying to instill within the squad.

I am backing them to get the recruitment right with a hard working, dedicated senior leadership group steering the way.
The last thing we need right now is a Hayne or Mitchell types taking up large portions of the cap sewing the seeds of doubt and contempt.

Go after the young hungry players without a chip on their shoulder. Sure pay THEM players overs to an extent. But I trust the club to be damn sure that if we do sign a once in a generation player that it will come with a once in a generation attitude and training practices.

This club is beginning to establish an identity again, and it is one to be admired not admonished. It is an identy of hard work and backing up your team mates in defence. An identity of punching above your weight and not folding because the chips are stacked against you.

The Haynes and Mitchell's of the world do not fit the mould. And at the price their types demand they should be setting the example not leaching off everyone else's hard work and stealing the glory.

This is the mould that has seen our highly touted juniors of the past step up and exceed expectations. This is the mould that has seen once average cup players put on a Bulldogs jersey and become a vital dog in the wheel. This is the mould that used to seperate us from the faders and the also rans.

This is the blueprint for the Canterbury way. Hate to say it but either fit in or fuck off!

Really well said. The last thing you need at the club is someone earning the biggest value contracts that is liable to slack off. As a rule that's going to piss the hard working players off and set a poor example to the youngsters.

I agree 100% and love what you said about establishing the identity. By far my favourite finals series was when we had a number of games that we won in extra time after overcoming deficits on the scoreboard. It started with an extra time win verse Parramatta and was followed up by two more extra time wins in the lead up to the grand final (which we sadly lost to a Brisbane team that was a few players shy of being the origin team). But if we can instill that kind of mentality into the team once again I will be an extremely proud fan.

I just don't see a player like Mitchell having this kind of attitude. I look at someone like Ramien (who wanted out of his contract for a few crappy reasons) as being a poor fit too.

I can recall a few players in recent times that have had the never say die attitude. Graham, Ennis, Reynolds, Tolman, Jackson and probably DWZ is our latest to show it.

These types of players can inspire the type of belief in the rest of the team. If everyone in the side can go out to play with that extreme will to win it shows. If we display that type of belief on the field often enough it can sometimes discourage an opponent before the game even begins. These types of players won't let poor refereeing decisions get their heads down. These types of players won't let the hyped up sides go into a game with a mental advantage.

Pure talent is a wonderful thing. But sometimes champions aren't as talented as the rest. They just want to win more.

I really hope that whoever is identifying our potential recruits is watching games and looking for those players who keep digging deep when the rest of the team believes the game is lost. If the bulk of our team is made up of players with this type of belief we'll see a team that we can be very proud of.

 

[c-b-b]

I agree with alot of things OP says and it's a good thread.

There are many marquee players that don't work out and I'm glad we didn't go thru with Mitchell. But we do need a notable signing and a mix of junior development with buying decent players.

But I also don't think the boards way of thinking will work in the modern era, things have changed since the era many of us look at with rose coloured glasses.

 

[coach]

Well said

 

[KLil]

Market value vs paying overs vs value to playing group...

Everybody here surely knows the majority of high profile recruits don't provide value for $
Most of them flop horribly in fact.

With that in mind, can we all take a breath before we criticize this board and playing group and football staff before sticking the knife in when we miss out on an ??upgrade?? to our roster

I am by no means pro board or Pay just simply a fan who wants the success of our club to be established with a long term vision.

If a potential recruit might possibly destabilize the playing group because of a bad attitude or training practices than surely that detracts from the values Pay and staff are trying to instill within the squad.

I am backing them to get the recruitment right with a hard working, dedicated senior leadership group steering the way.
The last thing we need right now is a Hayne or Mitchell types taking up large portions of the cap sewing the seeds of doubt and contempt.

Go after the young hungry players without a chip on their shoulder. Sure pay THEM players overs to an extent. But I trust the club to be damn sure that if we do sign a once in a generation player that it will come with a once in a generation attitude and training practices.

This club is beginning to establish an identity again, and it is one to be admired not admonished. It is an identy of hard work and backing up your team mates in defence. An identity of punching above your weight and not folding because the chips are stacked against you.

The Haynes and Mitchell's of the world do not fit the mould. And at the price their types demand they should be setting the example not leaching off everyone else's hard work and stealing the glory.

This is the mould that has seen our highly touted juniors of the past step up and exceed expectations. This is the mould that has seen once average cup players put on a Bulldogs jersey and become a vital dog in the wheel. This is the mould that used to seperate us from the faders and the also rans.

This is the blueprint for the Canterbury way. Hate to say it but either fit in or fuck off!

Anybody who doesn't know this already doesn't know the club, its history, are under the age of 20 or just dumb.

 

[KLil]

I agree with alot of things OP says and it's a good thread.

There are many marquee players that don't work out and I'm glad we didn't go thru with Mitchell. But we do need a notable signing and a mix of junior development with buying decent players.

But I also don't think the boards way of thinking will work in the modern era, things have changed since the era many of us look at with rose coloured glasses.

CHN and DWZ and notable signings though made through one of the clubs toughest periods. I agree one more would be nice but considering we have so many juniors coming through all at once who do you know who to buy??

Have a look at our last batch of kids... the Cooks, Tapaus, Finucanes and co should all still be at club but were shown the door for the likes of Graham and Williams. A perfect example as to why not to purchase overpriced marque players and why to give the juniors every chance to shine regardless how many years it takes because they good be kids that bring home the trophy.

 

[JackDog]

Good thread. There is the occasional player that takes longer than most to pull their head in. Mitchell Moses is one. It took him up to the end on 2018 to realise he ain’t the messiah, and that he needed to play team footy. He’s not everyone’s cup of tea but 2019 was his best year by far and the results showed.

Suli seems to be another. On the other hand, to me Corey Norman doesn’t look like he will ever change and has always seem too lax for a top flight footballer.

If the club is not going to be patient, and decides to wipe these types of players, fine. But they can sometimes become your best and most faithful.

Not saying go for or keep them all. Just to remember their all human and their all footballers so they can take longer to gel.

 

[Real1]

Market value vs paying overs vs value to playing group...

Everybody here surely knows the majority of high profile recruits don't provide value for $
Most of them flop horribly in fact.

With that in mind, can we all take a breath before we criticize this board and playing group and football staff before sticking the knife in when we miss out on an ??upgrade?? to our roster

I am by no means pro board or Pay just simply a fan who wants the success of our club to be established with a long term vision.

If a potential recruit might possibly destabilize the playing group because of a bad attitude or training practices than surely that detracts from the values Pay and staff are trying to instill within the squad.

I am backing them to get the recruitment right with a hard working, dedicated senior leadership group steering the way.
The last thing we need right now is a Hayne or Mitchell types taking up large portions of the cap sewing the seeds of doubt and contempt.

Go after the young hungry players without a chip on their shoulder. Sure pay THEM players overs to an extent. But I trust the club to be damn sure that if we do sign a once in a generation player that it will come with a once in a generation attitude and training practices.

This club is beginning to establish an identity again, and it is one to be admired not admonished. It is an identy of hard work and backing up your team mates in defence. An identity of punching above your weight and not folding because the chips are stacked against you.

The Haynes and Mitchell's of the world do not fit the mould. And at the price their types demand they should be setting the example not leaching off everyone else's hard work and stealing the glory.

This is the mould that has seen our highly touted juniors of the past step up and exceed expectations. This is the mould that has seen once average cup players put on a Bulldogs jersey and become a vital dog in the wheel. This is the mould that used to seperate us from the faders and the also rans.

This is the blueprint for the Canterbury way. Hate to say it but either fit in or fuck off!

All that Canterbury identity crap is 1990s talk mate, sorry...

I’ll put it quite simple here for you, I get your point about paying overs for rubbish characters... I really do, but what has frustrated me more then anything is the fact that we were meant to be signing the best young talent in the game, which the board actually stated they would, now with the talent that has come up this year... this has not happened.

to name a few;

briton nikore
Bronson xerri
Mika sivo
Thomas miekele
Stefano ukeimalono


Bargain buys like;
Waqa Blake
Campbell Gillard

all we have coughed up is meaney and cogger, two players the knights didn’t deem good enough.


All I remember is this quote;
We will be scouting talent from Fiji, Samoa, Tonga and all other bases to ensure the best talent comes to Canterbury bulldogs, I’m not board bashing but so far that quite has just transitioned into fluff..

 

[Howard Moon]

All that Canterbury identity crap is 1990s talk mate, sorry...

I’ll put it quite simple here for you, I get your point about paying overs for rubbish characters... I really do, but what has frustrated me more then anything is the fact that we were meant to be signing the best young talent in the game, which the board actually stated they would, now with the talent that has come up this year... this has not happened.

to name a few;

briton nikore
Bronson xerri
Mika sivo
Thomas miekele
Stefano ukeimalono


Bargain buys like;
Waqa Blake
Campbell Gillard

all we have coughed up is meaney and cogger, two players the knights didn’t deem good enough.


All I remember is this quote;
We will be scouting talent from Fiji, Samoa, Tonga and all other bases to ensure the best talent comes to Canterbury bulldogs, I’m not board bashing but so far that quite has just transitioned into fluff..

Meaney and Cogger both improved this year...Knights can't even get the best out of Ponga.. RCG is inconsistent and a bit soft at times... I guess you forgot about DWZ and CHN.. two of our best performers of the season...

 

[Trafford10]

Meaney and Cogger both improved this year...Knights can't even get the best out of Ponga.. RCG is inconsistent and a bit soft at times... I guess you forgot about DWZ and CHN.. two of our best performers of the season...

Knights will go alright in 2020 I think.
Ponga goes alright as well.

As to our team we are stuck at 12th. I don't see our team being much improved in 2020 at all despite the recruitment of DWZ & CHN and others.

Hopefully the team is up & ready for the start of the 2020 unlike the last two seasons. Our spine???....can't see where our points are going to come from?

 

[Howard Moon]

Knights will go alright in 2020 I think.
Ponga goes alright as well.

As to our team we are stuck at 12th. I don't see our team being much improved in 2020 at all despite the recruitment of DWZ & CHN and others.

Hopefully the team is up & ready for the start of the 2020 unlike the last two seasons. Our spine???....can't see where our points are going to come from?

Mate we finished on the same points as the Knights.. what the hell are you running? We will be in the 8 next year and they will very likely go down the ladder... Ponga is the most overrated player in the comp.. when he does shine it's usually only in patches during a game.. and very rarely against top teams

 

[Psycho Doggie]

This is the mould that has seen our highly touted juniors of the past step up and exceed expectations. This is the mould that has seen once average cup players put on a Bulldogs jersey and become a vital dog in the wheel. This is the mould that used to seperate us from the faders and the also rans.

Agree with your post, just wanted to add to this context what has been noted by others in the past. During the Hasler/Dib/Castle/2 premierships in 5 years era junior recruitment and development was put on the back burner (to say the least). The impact from that is probably bigger than we realise, and repairing that damage is going to take years. We have fallen well behind clubs like Roosters and Broncos in this regard.

 

[Real1]

Meaney and Cogger both improved this year...Knights can't even get the best out of Ponga.. RCG is inconsistent and a bit soft at times... I guess you forgot about DWZ and CHN.. two of our best performers of the season...

mate, Nathan brown is a shit coach, my point is if knights thought meaney was that good they wouldn’t have bought ponga, so we got the reject. And cogger is shit, that’s why knights bought Pearce... We fluked it with dwz, and CHN is not great, just good.