Drop tolman

[kaluah8123]

Tolman offers very little in attack but defensively and in clean up work he is outstanding. Limit his hit ups - don't pass him the ball use as a decoy. On the rae occasionas the dogs make a break Tolman is often in support - bothers me that the faster players who should be in support are way behind the play.

Agree 100%. Don’t blame his effort for putting his hand up on every play. If there were more players in our team with his effort and attitude we would be voting Pay for Prime Minister as we would be top 4.

Tolman lacks ability and skills that others do but he makes up for that ten find with his presence and professionalism. His is one dog that has my respect and who I’m proud to watch in our jersey. He is the classic example that skill only takes you so far, as he doesn’t have much but is going to be a 300 gamer and has played every game consistently to his abilities.

 

[2144superman]

not a lot of difference between the two, except Tolman has a better work rate in defence

Napa

rd1. 43mins 78m 22 tackles (4 missed) 0 errors
rd2. 52mins 182m 23 tackles (4 missed) 0 errors
rd3. 52mins 116m 31 tackles (2 missed) 0 errors
rd4. 16mins 20m 11 tackles (4 missed) 0 errors
rd8. 37mins 104m 24 tackles (1 missed) 0 errors
rd9. 51mins 185m 19 tackles (4 missed) 2 errors

Tolman
rd1. 52mins 158m 36 tackles (1 missed) 0 errors
rd2. 48mins 154m 25 tackles (0 missed) 0 errors
rd3. 55mins 128m 40 tackles (2 missed) 0 errors
rd4. 74mins 159m 47 tackles (2 missed) 0 errors
rd8. 50mins 99m 36 tackles (1 missed) 1 error
rd9. 65mins 148m 38 tackles (2 missed) 1 error

Napa's stats are wow ... good on the big guy

 

[Delta]

Either
Napa/Tolman and Ogden work on developing into a Lock with good ball playing ability
or
Napa/Tolman and Ogden playing big minutes off bench (30 + MINIMUM)

 

[GoTheDoggies]

If you want a prop that gets dominated every tackle then you start Tolman.

Tolman is past his sell by date and we are stuck with him

 

[Bulldogz82]

If Ogden and napa start, tolman must go to lock.

Totally agree
Like it or not we would be losing by bigger scores this year if Tolman was not tackling in the middle.
But attack wise both ofa and papi need to be on the field longer that is a no brainer, but who misses out or gets less minutes out of the others is pays job to figure out

 

[EB18]

If you want a prop that gets dominated every tackle then you start Tolman.

Tolman is past his sell by date and we are stuck with him

We arent stuck with him if we dont want to be. Its just Pay the dumb **** wont drop him or at least put him on the bench and limit his minutes.

 

[EB18]

Totally agree
Like it or not we would be losing by bigger scores this year if Tolman was not tackling in the middle.
But attack wise both ofa and papi need to be on the field longer that is a no brainer, but who misses out or gets less minutes out of the others is pays job to figure out

Wrong. Just put Jackson at lock. Theres no need for Tolman. Rfm and chn on the edges. It gives us a bigger more aggressive pack. Ogden napa props. Its simple but Pay sadly has no idea. If he wants Tolman then bench him.

 

[The Big Issue]

We need Tolman for his token dropped balls and soft hitups on the 4th tackle.

Tolman is a prop that belongs in a different era. Maybe the 70s. He would thrive at melbourne because their star studded team can carry the odd unskilled minimum wage player.

You need big (xxl) steamrollers who have leg speed, can pop an offload and occasionally bust the line and run 30-40 metres. Does our coaching staff and recruitment not watch any of the top 8 teams?

100% agree. His post contact meters are terrible and his play the balls kill any chance of momentum.
Add to it all the praise he gets from commentators about how tough he is to play 80 up front- u know what if you are too rooted to tackle in the last twenty you shouldn’t be out there.
Don’t forget about the fact he can’t pass.

 

[Kelpie03]

If Ogden and napa start, tolman must go to lock.

And force him to concentrate on tackling not running the ball.

 

[seven07]

Didn't realise twelvies were now permitted on the kennel.

Stupid thread. Would agree we need to use him better, but drop? lol okay.

Not every prop has to give "Impact", or be a big body. If he gets the job done, makes us metres, makes first contact, and steadies our middle D - then he stays. And he is ticking those boxes at the moment.

There is a reason Pay has him in the team - it's because he is the best we have, and consistently has the output.

And most importantly, he plays round 12 and is in my supercoach team. So fuck right off with that bs!

Mate if I'm 12 you must be an infant grab your dyper and pacifier and Nick off, the only people that love tolman starting are all 15 opposing coaches and if Tillman is so good then why aren't all other clubs banging on the door to ask for an early release what a joke of a comment honestly a forwards job is to dominate in other words be the alpha leader of the pact and dominate the opposition. Sure he can tackle an play 80 mins and so can every other triathlete that's not the issue the issue is impact he doesn't have it he should be starting from the bench then coming on and frustrating the opposition with his defence not at the start when are in an arm wrestle.

 

[flamebouyant]

And force him to concentrate on tackling not running the ball.

To be fair he is making more metres and post contact metres then anyone else in the club. Or close to.

 

[JayBee]

Mate if I'm 12 you must be an infant grab your dyper and pacifier and Nick off, the only people that love tolman starting are all 15 opposing coaches and if Tillman is so good then why aren't all other clubs banging on the door to ask for an early release what a joke of a comment honestly a forwards job is to dominate in other words be the alpha leader of the pact and dominate the opposition. Sure he can tackle an play 80 mins and so can every other triathlete that's not the issue the issue is impact he doesn't have it he should be starting from the bench then coming on and frustrating the opposition with his defence not at the start when are in an arm wrestle.

Sorry for overstating your age... because with punctuation like that, I think toddler would have been more applicable.

 

[seven07]

Sorry for overstating your age... because with punctuation like that, I think toddler would have been more applicable.

Sorry for overstating your age... because with punctuation like that, I think toddler would have been more applicable.

What a loser, loses the debate then worries about grammar lol.

 

[speedy2460]

In the first 5 rounds compare the stats.
Napa 130 tackles
Tolman 222 tackles.
Napa 19 missed tackles
Tolman 8 missed tackles.
Napa 251 minutes played.
Tolman 344 minutes played.
Napa 2 errors.
Tolman 2 errors

I know stats generally mean buggar all, but you really need to give credit when its due.
As for the people who complain about Tolmans error rate and missed tackles...look at the stats.

 

[Bulldogz82]

Wrong. Just put Jackson at lock. Theres no need for Tolman. Rfm and chn on the edges. It gives us a bigger more aggressive pack. Ogden napa props. Its simple but Pay sadly has no idea. If he wants Tolman then bench him.

I would prefer Jackson at lock but tolman is not going to get dropped and provides no impact if he comes off the bench, he will always start it's just a matter of lock or prop

 

[JayBee]

Loses what debate? We were debating? Sorry mate, didn't realise you were super sensitive to an opinion.

Okay now where do we start.

Sure he can tackle an play 80 mins and so can every other triathlete that's not the issue the issue is impact he doesn't have it he should be starting from the bench then coming on and frustrating the opposition with his defence not at the start when are in an arm wrestle

Firstly - you stated that he has no impact, and should be starting from the bench. Bit of an oxymoron, considering you expect people starting from the bench to have an impact. Already, you have just shown how silly this comment is.

Secondly, the REASON he starts from the beginning, is because as you said, he has little impact of the bench. It's called bench management - and whilst Pay has been very poor in this respect with Tolman and others, he is starting with a player who will take the grind out of the game, and hopefully open it up for our bigger bodies on the bench to expose the defence, and hopefully bendh the line. That hasn't happened, obviously - but is that the fault of Tolman?

Thirdly - if you know our team, and what the structure is of our D, you would notice who makes first contact in virtually every tackle. It was Ennis (he was a machine in this respect) who marshaled our middle third. Then it was Graham, and unfortuanelty now, it is Tolman - someone who probably doesn't have the credence of his two predecessors. Next time you watch a game, look who makes the all important first contact for those tackles in the ruck.

If you are going to have an opinion, maybe drop some context as to WHY you have that opinion, rather than just word vomiting bullshit.

 

[seven07]

Loses what debate? We were debating? Sorry mate, didn't realise you were super sensitive to an opinion.

Okay now where do we start.



Firstly - you stated that he has no impact, and should be starting from the bench. Bit of an oxymoron, considering you expect people starting from the bench to have an impact. Already, you have just shown how silly this comment is.

Secondly, the REASON he starts from the beginning, is because as you said, he has little impact of the bench. It's called bench management - and whilst Pay has been very poor in this respect with Tolman and others, he is starting with a player who will take the grind out of the game, and hopefully open it up for our bigger bodies on the bench to expose the defence, and hopefully bendh the line. That hasn't happened, obviously - but is that the fault of Tolman?

Thirdly - if you know our team, and what the structure is of our D, you would notice who makes first contact in virtually every tackle. It was Ennis (he was a machine in this respect) who marshaled our middle third. Then it was Graham, and unfortuanelty now, it is Tolman - someone who probably doesn't have the credence of his two predecessors. Next time you watch a game, look who makes the all important first contact for those tackles in the ruck.

If you are going to have an opinion, maybe drop some context as to WHY you have that opinion, rather than just word vomiting bullshit.

Mate the guy would not make no starting team. Argument finished.

 

[JayBee]

Mate the guy would not make no starting team. Argument finished.

How is that argument finished?

That just shows the depth of how shit our team is, and the reason why he is starting.

Thanks for coming.

 

[D- voice]

We have, but I blame Pay for that

Pay is not to blame, I will tell you why...
He is a rookie, who was employed by our club without any proper support ( a mentor like ??? )
Be worried be very worried if we sack him to employ the son Ben Anderson

 

[GDR]

100% agree. His post contact meters are terrible.

its awesome when people make a statement that is clearly wrong .. im not a massive fan of tolman , but dont just make things up that aint true.. i still think he has a place in our team..

POST Contact Metres top 50 on NRL.com