What happens to tolman

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KLil

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I have a sneaking suspicion that the whole team will play better now that Graham is gone.
I think he contributed to the awful 4th tackle option more than Tolman did.
Problem was they both just carried it up to the advantage line and hit points for plays that never happened. Dud game plan if your " X factor " was only on for 10min a game and your halves couldn't construct.
 

KLil

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These are the stats for tackle efficiency last season, i have ranked them from most effective to least effective.

Tualau 94%
Woods 93.6%
Tolman 92.8%
Klemmer 92.2%
Fualalo 91%
Jackson 88.9%
Elliott 88%
RFM 87.8%

As we can see, Tolman sits 3rd on that list. Yes you also have to take into account minutes played per game, tackles made, etc. But the gap there isn't massive like some people are trying to make out.

Tackle efficiency isn't even an absolute true indicator when judging a players overall defensive ability, things like dominant tackles, slowing down the ruck, positioning, etc aren't even taken into calculations here. It's just does the player make the tackle or doe he not.

Does Tolman make his tackles? Yes. Does he cover extremely well in defence? Yes. No one is saying he doesn't do this stuff. But does he hurt in the tackles enough? No. Does he dominate the tackle enough? No. Does he slow the ruck enough? No. Things like these are equally as important as just being there and making a tackle. Like Mason said, Tolman is a spot player and teams RUN at him to setup the next play.

Some people need to stop making out that Tolman is some elite defender and that he justifies huge minutes because this, it simply isn't true. His teammates are just as capable at making NRL standard tackles while providing far more with the ball in hand. If Tolman is playing more minutes than Woods or Klemmer next season then that will be an absolute crime.
I agree but he does slow the ruck down... He is the best wrestler and niggler in the team. As for dominating tackles one on one? no, but one must take into consideration whose defending with him at the time and Graham or Lichaa weren't exactly the best hitters either.
 

Oatley Dog

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Exactly this. I can't believe I read that our bench forwards were the problem.

We got dominated with graham and tolman starting.
We blew 6 games by half time last year (ie. 12 points or more). Overall we were behind at halftime in 16 games, 4 of which we came back and won. So in 10 of our games where we were behind at halftime it was by 6 points or less. So, that doesn't sound like we were dominated with the two of them starting last year. Given they were the 2 who tried the hardest every game I think the fault lies in other areas - like the bench and the rubbish tactics by the coach.
 

CrittaMagic69

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I agree but he does slow the ruck down... He is the best wrestler and niggler in the team. As for dominating tackles one on one? no, but one must take into consideration whose defending with him at the time and Graham or Lichaa weren't exactly the best hitters either.
He used to be a much better wrestler, these days not so much. I'm sure Haslers coaching influenced this to an extent, but physically just isn't big enough or strong enough to dominate against other forwards.

Tolman needs to get bigger, stronger and become more explosive, not try and pace himself like his running a marathon and play low intensity minutes as a result. Tolman doing that off the bench will be far more valuable for the team than having him play big minutes at lock because you're too afraid to bench him.
 

David holland

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We need the fourth prop in this to step up , who is it ?
 

KLil

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He used to be a much better wrestler, these days not so much. I'm sure Haslers coaching influenced this to an extent, but physically just isn't big enough or strong enough to dominate against other forwards.

Tolman needs to get bigger, stronger and become more explosive, not try and pace himself like his running a marathon and play low intensity minutes as a result. Tolman doing that off the bench will be far more valuable for the team than having him play big minutes at lock because you're too afraid to bench him.
Correct, because your forwards rotation is just as important as those starting... It will be a more efficient and well rounded pack having Tolman come on for Woods/Klem.
 

David holland

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Time for fualalo to stand up ,has been in the system for a while now, we haven’t got anybody else
 

flamebouyant

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I don't think RFM should be benched, i think he should be aiming to play 80 minutes on an edge. I also don't like the idea of rotating edge forwards, it's a waste of interchange these days. You basically burn atleast 6 changes rotating you're middle these days, that only leaves you with 2 free to cover a wide range of things. You do still need someone off the bench that can cover the middle or an edge though, whoever doesn't start out of Elliott/RFM will be that player.

I also don't think we should be keeping a middle forward on for huge minutes, especially a forward like Tolman, his "motor" is massively overrated and he isn't near effective enough to be on the field for huge minutes. His skillset is also far too limited to justify the minutes. Jackson is probably the only forward i would play for 80 through the middle as he can consistently contribute on and off the ball at a high enough level, even then i probably wouldn't be aiming for massive minutes each week.

Either way, the forward packs looks to be shaping up like this if we follow pre season reports, it's not what i'd pick but i'm obviously not coach or at training every day. I'm going to leave Feastwood out for a number of reasons at this stage.

8. Woods
9. Lichaa
10. Tolman
11. RFM/Elliott
12. Jackson
13. Tolman

14. ????
15. Fualalo
16. Tualau
17. Elliott/RFM
Whats better then one tolman?? Two tolmans. Prop and lock. Lol
 

speedy2460

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It appears as though the choice is between Tolman and Elliott for the 13 jersey.
Tolman is a workhorse who never misses a tackle. He can play for 80 minutes. Hes about 30 years old.
Elliott is a young guy with loads of potential. He hasnt fully realised his potential yet and will take time.
Elliott can make a few mistakes and misses a lot of tackles.
Tolman doesnt.
The bottom line is that Tolman must be first choice. With a new coach and a real game plan, Tolman will be an asset this year.
Elliott must be groomed and taken along slowly to take over permanently. He will learn a lot from Eastwood and Tolman.
 
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