Should the NRL have a Zero Tolerance drug policy?

Should the NRL have a Zero Tolerance drug policy?

  • Yes - Zero Tolerance to all drugs.

    Votes: 11 45.8%
  • No - Let the players do what they want.

    Votes: 9 37.5%
  • Maybe - Depends on the drug.

    Votes: 4 16.7%

  • Total voters
    24
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Dogna88

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In one post I think you wrapped up the ignorance the general population has of the drug problem.

Treat it as a health problem vs a criminal problem

  • The government supplies the drug
  • Govt supplying it makes sure the drug is "clean" from contaminants that can kill
  • Govt supplying takes the black market/crime out of it as criminals can't compete with a a controlled substance
  • Your users become KNOWN and hence they can be treated as opposed to people keeping their drug habits a secret because of fear of prosecution
  • Addicts no longer have to steal to feed their habit, They can go to govt administered clinics where not only can they get their drug of choice, in controlled circumstances, but also get TREATMENT for their addictions and care by medical professionals
We've criminalized drugs for a long long time, it hasn't worked.

Here's an article about Portugal treating the problem as a HEALTH PROBLEM and not a criminal one

http://www.businessinsider.com/what-happened-when-portugal-decriminalized-all-drugs-2016-3
Whoa.... so me being a tax payer... has to have my taxes to supply an addict with their drug of choice??? I am addicted to food and actually need it to live... how is it fair that i cant get my food of choice for free!!

Would you be happy making the clinics purely donation run. You can pay for their choices. Not me.

Ill give you a better example. If the govt is giving handouts to addicts. They should for all addicts. If thats the case. Im going to the doctor and saying im a sex addict. Ill be able to get into stillettos at the governments (taxpayer) expense. Ill happily sit down with a leftie counsellor and discuss treatment for that hahaha...

But seriously, drug addicts will exploit the system in the same way. At my (taxpayer) expense
 
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CaptainJackson

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And when people want heroin, or meth, or bath salts legalized? You have to draw the line somewhere. Cocaine is a class A drug for good reason.

Besides what a shit storm that would create when the first person overdoses and sites the government for tens of millions. That's why governments should never contemplate it.
Which drugs are available ? Well I guess I'd leave that up to medical professionals in the industry, not some outback national MP (troy grant) who has a biased outlook and knows fuck all about the problem

We're getting ODs now anyways and most of the overdoses are from contaminants from drugs.

These are kids man, kids don't always make rational logical choices. Why do we have to put a lifetime criminal record on them for a mistake they make? A record that has the possibility of affecting the outcome of their future employment because of a silly mistake they made when they were kids? Isn't this about protecting them?

Magistrates try and avoid sending 1st time offenders to gaol purely because its a cycle, they'd rather give kids a sentence of attending a health clinic than gaol, criminal records.

The criminalization of drugs does a hell lot more damage on these people who make mistakes than the drug itself. Yes some people overdose and die, but also others who make a mistake, don't overdoses but get caught carry around that sentence for a lifetime because of societies misplaced stigma on someone who's used drugs while they were young
 

Oatley Dog

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Interesting as to whether an employer can sack an employee for drug use.


I know this is a British publication but surely principles would be pretty much the same.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2005/sep/24/careers.work1

The legality of dismissal for recreational drug use hinges on a gamut of laws that cover health and safety, employment, human rights and data protection. If a case of unfair dismissal is brought before an employment tribunal, the onus is on the employer to prove that drugs have had a detrimental impact on the employee's ability to do the job.

"An employer can stipulate about behaviour in private. This is known as a moral clause and is standard in many celebrity contracts," says Brian Palmer, an employment lawyer for Charles Russell. "For example, it would be understandable that a children's TV company would not want to have a known cocaine fiend as a presenter."

Even if an employee is convicted of a drug offence, "the employer would still have to prove that dismissal was justified", says Palmer. "The argument of bringing an employer's name into disrepute would only be valid if that employer was mentioned during the legal proceedings."
Don't confuse advice by a lawyer with the correct legal position. This is an advising by a lawyer on possibilities not legislation. For starters does anyone think that Keogh, Bromwich, Procter and SKD have assisted the reputation of league in any way shape or form by their behaviour? I certainly don't - the negativity just gives parents another reason to steer their kids away from the game. Yes drugs are a community wide problem but that is because people in elite and influential positions make it look acceptable. The important thing here though is that these are police investigations not NRL drug testing. The two issues are quite separate. One is about the law the other about a duty of care.
 

CaptainJackson

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What about the stats that show portugal has had a 40% increase in drug induced homicides, or that the hiv rate in portugal is the 3rd highest in Europe. Statistics can be spun to suit any agenda. When in doubt just remember what mr garrison said. Drugs are bad mmkay.
With TREATMENT they've reduced drug induced deaths and reduced the rate of AIDS amongst drug users. And you're spinning this to be a bad thing. Ffs
 

CaptainJackson

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Whoa.... so me being a tax payer... has to have my taxes to supply an addict with their drug of choice??? I am addicted to food and actually need it to live... how is it fair that i cant get my food of choice for free!!

Would you be happy making the clinics purely donation run. You can pay for their choices. Not me.

Ill give you a better example. If the govt is giving handouts to addicts. They should for all addicts. If thats the case. Im going to the doctor and saying im a sex addict. Ill be able to get into stillettos at the governments (taxpayer) expense. Ill happily sit down with a leftie counsellor and discuss treatment for that hahaha...

But seriously, drug addicts will exploit the system in the same way. At my (taxpayer) expense
My taxes pay for wars I don't agree with, massive subsidies to INEFFICIENT industries (Gina Reinhardt I'm looking at you) so should I just tell the govt to take those portions out of my tax?

I'll GLADLY pay taxes for free education and healthcare because they're for the betterment of society. And that's what I see the drug problem as, A health issue.

The injecting rooms were dismantled by the libs, I think you'll find, from statistics, that the injecting rooms were helping addicts
 

Oatley Dog

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Ok, first of all, your comparing a rugby league player having a sneaky line of coke to an ice addict. So already you are way out of context.
I agree, ice is a really terrible, terrible drug, and its epademic in australia is an aweful problem. Its by far and away the worst drug created thus far.
As for comparing ice to alcohol, lets look at it this way; when someone is off their head on ice they are more then likely a useless mess incapable of most things. It is the addiction to the drug and the cost of the drug that 'forces them' to rob and steal. However im sure that this is usually done when they have none of the drug, and are therefore no longer high. This would allow them to actually be capable of this.
However, it is WHEN people who drink are actually drunk that the bad shit happens. This is when a drunk guy king hits another guy and kills him just because the guy looked at him. Or when the drunk husband beats his wife or kids. Or when he gets behind the wheel of a car and crashes into oncoming traffic and kills innocent people, yet survives as a lot of drunks do in these situations.
How many lives and families have been destroyed due to alcohol addiction??? My wife is a nurse, and my best mate and his wife are nurses, and i also have several other friends who are nurses, so dont try and argue that this is not an issue in society.
Do you remember prohabition of alcohol in america???? Holy shit, that was an absolute shitstorm!!!!!
Alcohol abbuse, unlike drug abuse, is tolerated because we are so used to it!! Its in every day life. There is a pub on every second corner in australia, and people are beligerantly out of control, drunk, every single night of the week. Yet VB is the sponsor of our NRL australian team and state of origin!!
While im at it, how about we add ciggarettes to this discussion. In 2005 15,000 people died in australia from smoking related illnesses. It causes a massive strain on our health system every year. Yet people dont perceive it as a drug because theyre so used to it.
Drugs, in more herbal forms, have been used by shamans and witchdoctors for millenia. They are an integral part of ceremonies in many cultures. Marijuana is even prescribed by doctors now due to its medicinal value. But this is probably only because the government has learnt that they can tax it. Just like they do alcohol and tobacco. Can you imagine how much revenue the australian government makes of alcohol and tobacco each year? We would be broke if these drugs were illegal and they could not make a massive profit from them.
I find it interesting how people that have never tried drugs think they are experts and think that anyone who takes drugs is a junkie. If you put 100 people in one room with a bag of ecstacy and another 100 people in another room with unlimited alcohol, i 100% garauntee that you would have barely any, if any issues in the ecstacy room, and countless issues in the drunks room!!! You wouldnt even need security in the ecstacy room. Yet every single pub is required by law to have security just so that they can control the fucking stupid shit drunks do!!!
In closing, all things should be done in moderation. Alcohol and drugs, maybe even religion (im pointing my finger at you hoppa). Drugs like ice create countless problems in society, but so does alcohol. You simply can not deny this. So dont act like your better then someone who has an occasional line of coke, just because the drug you choose to consume every night after a long day at work is legal. Dont be an absolute hypocrite!!
Fair dinkum, that is a rant designed purely to justify the use of drugs. Try arresting someone on crack or acid before your thoughts on ice are expressed. The bit that you seem to have overlooked in all this is that all these drugs are uncontrolled in quantity/quality/composition. Every pill/bag is a mystery every time you buy it. There have been millions killed as a result of illicit drug use and there is no valid reason for taking it other than to change or alter you mind and become something you aren't. (spare me the cancer relief argument that's a separate issue altogether) The addictive nature of these drugs is extremely fast, unlike alcohol. And let's not forget the slave labour, the organised crime, the cartels, the corruption that can be directly attributed to drugs. Alcohol consumption isn't just about altering your mental state although it certainly has those qualities. It is actually about taste, flavour, smell and a range of other sensory activations that can be controlled at every level. As for your ecstacy argument, try telling that to the parents (as I have had) that died from taking a pill at a party. So of your hundred pill poppers you may not get any problems from them but then again they may not be breathing.
 

Trafford10

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Some strong opinions here and I haven't read all the posts but my view is no to a zero tolerance approach.

Having a few lines of Cocaine at a party in my view is nothing but distribution of ICE I think is a serious crime.

Also I should add that my son is a Victorian police officer and niece of mine is a paramedic so I hear stories first hand of how badly drup addiction adversely effects peopke and their families.

Having said that I think the 3 strikes your out policy should apply to NRL players.
 

Oatley Dog

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My taxes pay for wars I don't agree with, massive subsidies to INEFFICIENT industries (Gina Reinhardt I'm looking at you) so should I just tell the govt to take those portions out of my tax?

I'll GLADLY pay taxes for free education and healthcare because they're for the betterment of society. And that's what I see the drug problem as, A health issue.

The injecting rooms were dismantled by the libs, I think you'll find, from statistics, that the injecting rooms were helping addicts
What makes you think the injecting rooms have been dismantled. They are open until 5.30 tonight if you need a little something something.....
 

CaptainJackson

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What makes you think the injecting rooms have been dismantled. They are open until 5.30 tonight if you need a little something something.....
I thought they were dismantled.

And what makes you think because I recognise this as a health problem that i take drugs?

This is exactly the social stigma of drugs that I was talking about.
 

CaptainJackson

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  • More funding for harm minimisation strategies
Former federal police commissioner Mick Palmer told ABC News Breakfast his attitude had changed a lot since he was a young policeman in the 1960s.

"I didn't have time for people who used drugs. I realised the futility of the practice," he said.

"Since I retired, I have devoted a fair bit of time to work more closely with the drug user coalface and it has become obvious we can't arrest our way out of it.

"Law enforcement can't solve what is a serious issue and we need a more multi-faceted approach to deal with the problem.
 

steeliz

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but is alcohol all they had in their system? You can't squarely blame it.
maybe not, but that is what the gov., police and dr's all blamed it on.

You listen to the Dr's at St, Vincents being interviewed and they all blame alcohol.

They all praise the lockout laws that limit access to alcohol.
 

steeliz

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Although pot is called the 'gateway drug' ask ask any junkie and I will guarantee you that almost 99% of them will say they had alcohol before they touched anything else.
 

Dogna88

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My taxes pay for wars I don't agree with, massive subsidies to INEFFICIENT industries (Gina Reinhardt I'm looking at you) so should I just tell the govt to take those portions out of my tax?

I'll GLADLY pay taxes for free education and healthcare because they're for the betterment of society. And that's what I see the drug problem as, A health issue.

The injecting rooms were dismantled by the libs, I think you'll find, from statistics, that the injecting rooms were helping addicts
Its not just a healthcare issue. Thats just a tunnel thinking approach. Organised crime stats aside. Crimes committed by addicts to fuel their addiction is a major problem, they are the crimes that create innocent victims (robberies, break and enters).

Lab drugs are too unstable to legalise in HOPE a psychologist can cure you.

The Methadone program is a healthcare approach to heroin addiction. DOESNT WORK!

Im not saying the systems we have in place is working. Im saying there is NO solution. If you start turning drug addiction soely as a healthcare problem, would pedophilia also be considered? Its the same concepts.

Where do you start. Where do you stop?

My opinion (through my life/work experiences). Legalise and regulate cannabis (profit made to assist in drug PREVENTION programs). Higher taxes on alcohol. Decriminalise (not legalise) low scale drug possession (with conditions ie similar to cannabis caution scheme currently in place). Increase penalities on prohibited drug supply and manufacture.

PS.. hope you see this as a debate... not an argument
 
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CaptainJackson

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Its not just a healthcare issue. Thats just a tunnel thinking approach. Organised crime stats aside. Crimes committed by addicts to fuel their addiction is a major problem, they are the crimes that create innocent victims (robberies, break and enters).

Lab drugs are too unstable to legalise in HOPE a psychologist can cure you.

The Methadone program is a healthcare approach to heroin addiction. DOESNT WORK!

Im not saying the systems we have in place is working. Im saying there is NO solution. If you start turning drug addiction soely as a healthcare problem, would pedophilia also be considered? Its the same concepts.

Where do you start. Where do you stop?
Agree there is no complete solution and imo never will be. I'm just pointing out the many kids who experiment for a few years, we don't need to have these kids burdened for their whole life just because they were kids. As I said, Let's not kid ourselves we've all done stupid shit when we were kids.

My opinion (through my life/work experiences). Legalise and regulate cannabis (profit made to assist in drug PREVENTION programs). Higher taxes on alcohol. Decriminalise (not legalise) low scale drug possession (with conditions ie similar to cannabis caution scheme currently in place). Increase penalities on prohibited drug supply and manufacture.

PS.. hope you see this as a debate... not an argument
Agree with what you posted. I just don't see how the current system we have helps in anyway.
 

Dogna88

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Agree there is no complete solution and imo never will be. I'm just pointing out the many kids who experiment for a few years, we don't need to have these kids burdened for their whole life just because they were kids. As I said, Let's not kid ourselves we've all done stupid shit when we were kids.



Agree with what you posted. I just don't see how the current system we have helps in anyway.
You dont see how the current system works because... it doesnt.... its all about how we move into the future lol
 

Oatley Dog

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  • More funding for harm minimisation strategies
Former federal police commissioner Mick Palmer told ABC News Breakfast his attitude had changed a lot since he was a young policeman in the 1960s.

"I didn't have time for people who used drugs. I realised the futility of the practice," he said.

"Since I retired, I have devoted a fair bit of time to work more closely with the drug user coalface and it has become obvious we can't arrest our way out of it.

"Law enforcement can't solve what is a serious issue and we need a more multi-faceted approach to deal with the problem.
I've known Mick for 20 years and he is a good, if very old, man. His point about the role of police is correct - its the same point all police would make. Unfortunately there are still no other options available to reduce the impact of drugs. Making them legal doesn't improve the behaviour of the users. Injecting rooms are not designed to stop use only reduce the downstream problems of continuous injecting in non-sterile environments. Everyone's preference is to remove drugs from the community. The problem is that there is no practical way to do it and so criminalisation remains the primary strategy.
 

CaptainJackson

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The problem is that there is no practical way to do it and so criminalisation remains the primary strategy.
Agreed with the rest of your post except for the bit I quoted.

Portugal and Netherlands have shown that they have reduced not only the harm but number of users as well. So I believe we should definitely explore their ways. And in no way what so ever am I saying we're going to have a 100% success rate.

They did this doco, on ABC, and they interviewed troy Grant who referenced a Dutch study and the results. When they contacted the ones who conducted the study and relayed troy grants comments, the ones who conducted the study said it was a complete misrepresentation of their study

This kind of thinking is just not going to get us anywhere, it's going to yield the same results. We need to expand our methodology on this
 

dhoo8450

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I love these debates. It's always so easy to differentiate between those who have and have not done drugs.

I vote no :P
 

Mr Invisible

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I saw the effect of coke a few years ago when I saw Marilyn Manson perform at Soundwave.

The guy was so seriously fucked he could barely stand, let alone sing.

These are kids man, kids don't always make rational logical choices. Why do we have to put a lifetime criminal record on them for a mistake they make? A record that has the possibility of affecting the outcome of their future employment because of a silly mistake they made when they were kids? Isn't this about protecting them?
That's a parenting fail if kids are taking drugs.

Shit I wouldn't even have the foggiest clue where to go looking if I actually wanted a joint or bag of coke.

Maybe it's also to do with the company people keep (and thus social/peer pressure)!
 
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