Gay marriage plebiscite - Result YES to SSM

[Flanagun]

I'm guessing you didn't read the articles through. The second article states that there's an increase in the number of females have same-sex experiences. The first article states that there isn't an increase in the number of same-sex experiences, there's just more women reporting it.

The two articles are diametrically opposed with one article supporting your belief while the other article explains that there opposite is true due to a misunderstanding of statistics.

In fairness, Wolfie did acknowledge that...

Yes there are many reports on the net.
Some suggest the rise is due to society relaxing the stigma surrounding lesbianism and so girls are more open to admitting to it ,which makes sense I guess.

Cool to see you acknowledging this and thinking about this possibility. I honestly think it'd the case. People feel less repressed these days and sometimes they does lead to experimentation. Sometimes between men and even more frequently between women I think. I think people are born gay but entering a gay relationship is optional. A lot of bisexual people may have even historically repressed one half of who they were because bring the other half was easier.

If some girls do it because guys like it, I guess while their action may be gay, their motivation is not really gay in essence because to some extent it relates to male/ female power dynamics. Maybe some other lesbian relationships do too in that some hi women may decide they don't like bring with men due to personal experiences and decide to only persue same sex relationships. But, I do think you are right that more women are being open about same sex encounters these days....and there are probably more women becoming involved in those sorts of encounters too.

Personally, I think it's because a fair bit of the social stigma has been removed (though certainly not all) and that empowers people to experiment a bit with who they are.

I agree there probably is more lesbian sex going on in Australia these days than there was in the 50s and there is certainly more open discussion from people who enjoy those types of encounters....

But I still don't think anyone who is 100 percent straight could be peer pressured into being gay by society.

The more open the dialogue, the more liberated people feel to seek and discuss what they want and desire. I think that's what it comes down to.

 

[CaptainJackson]

1. Marriage is not exclusively about having children, however this is the primary reason yes.

No it's not.

The only reason marriage exists is because it recognised the fundamental and biological reality that only a man and a woman can have a child.

LOL


Seriously this is too easy

 

[Dawgfather]

LOL


Seriously this is too easy

You are a simplistic individual, aren't you.

How does: "Most fair minded people believe marriage exists primarily to support the upbringing of children."

contradict with

"The only reason marriage exists is because it recognised the fundamental and biological reality that only a man and a woman can have a child".

Yes the existence of marriage is because it supported/supports the best way to raise children. And Yes, this is the primary reason it exists, but not the ONLY reason.

Saying yes this much is making me worried I might start supporting the wrong side of the campaign.

 

[CaptainJackson]

You are a simplistic individual, aren't you.

How does: "Most fair minded people believe marriage exists primarily to support the upbringing of children."

contradict with

"The only reason marriage exists is because it recognised the fundamental and biological reality that only a man and a woman can have a child".

Yes the existence of marriage is because it supported/supports the best way to raise children. And Yes, this is the primary reason it exists, but not the ONLY reason.

Saying yes this much is making me worried I might start supporting the wrong side of the campaign.

"The only reason marriage exists......."

Keep trying Britt, you'll eventually put forward an argument without contradicting yourself.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

No it's not.

The only reason marriage exists is because it recognised the fundamental and biological reality that only a man and a woman can have a child.

Gay people seem to think marriage exists to help people feel part of society.

Nah. Marriage existed for many reasons throughout history. Generally it was a way to bring two families together. Families in conflict would engage their children in marriage to avoid further conflict. Of course there's many other purposes for marriage. Starting a family, having kids, preventing conflict, just because you love each other. None of these require procreation though.

 

[south of heaven]

So if the gays win will anyone honestly loose any sleep over this ?

 

[Wolfmother]

Children can't vote though so...

No but they will be exposed to it..

Canada are only Now starting to feel the ripple effects

http://www.marriagealliance.com.au/canada_ssm_destroying_all_other_rights

 

[Wolfmother]

In fairness, Wolfie did acknowledge that...



Cool to see you acknowledging this and thinking about this possibility. I honestly think it'd the case. People feel less repressed these days and sometimes they does lead to experimentation. Sometimes between men and even more frequently between women I think. I think people are born gay but entering a gay relationship is optional. A lot of bisexual people may have even historically repressed one half of who they were because bring the other half was easier.

If some girls do it because guys like it, I guess while their action may be gay, their motivation is not really gay in essence because to some extent it relates to male/ female power dynamics. Maybe some other lesbian relationships do too in that some hi women may decide they don't like bring with men due to personal experiences and decide to only persue same sex relationships. But, I do think you are right that more women are being open about same sex encounters these days....and there are probably more women becoming involved in those sorts of encounters too.

Personally, I think it's because a fair bit of the social stigma has been removed (though certainly not all) and that empowers people to experiment a bit with who they are.

I agree there probably is more lesbian sex going on in Australia these days than there was in the 50s and there is certainly more open discussion from people who enjoy those types of encounters....

But I still don't think anyone who is 100 percent straight could be peer pressured into being gay by society.

The more open the dialogue, the more liberated people feel to seek and discuss what they want and desire. I think that's what it comes down to.

Do you think gay marriage will decrease homophobia?

 

[Flanagun]

Do you think gay marriage will decrease homophobia?

That's a good question! I think it will over time.... prejudices seem to be formed on societal views of what's abnormal. So we need to try and normalise same sex relationships to an extent.... not to an extent where we say they are the norm, but to the extent where we can say as a society those types of relationships aren't abnormal. For the people involved in same sex relationships, I think they ARE normal because gay people are just following a natural predisposition.... much like we are. They just have a different inclination to heterosexual people... or a different primary inclination to those who may experiment with the same sex, but ultimately decide they are more suited to Herero relationships.

Normalising attitudes to homosexuality may result in more people experimenting with same sex encounters, but I don't think it is going to change the natural orientation of people who are 100 percent straight. If a person is somewhat bisexual, they may be encouraged by a more tolerant society to experiment with that lifestyle, but I don't think it will ultimately convince people who are 100 percent heterosexual they are actually of a different orientation.

In short, I feel the more something is accepted by society the more individual tolerance towards something that has been traditionally considered taboo will increase over time. One thing is for certain, I definitely think just the gesture of saying yes will result in gay people feeling more of a sense of societal acceptance.

Individual attitudes of prejudice may persist... when people form form beliefs, they become resistant to alternate perspectives....But overall, tolerance has increased a lot in the last 20 years or do since I left school....attitudes have already changed and evolved a lot, so I think legalising ssm would probably lead to attitudes of tolerance increasing in society. I don't know if prejudice can ever be eradicated. But acceptance that something is not wrong or abnormal on a societal level can only help increase tolerance. It may increase the statistics of people who have and openly talk about same sex encounters, but I don't think it will alter the percentage of people who are born with that natural predisposition to be gay... or even go through periods of curiosity.

 

[CaptainJackson]

That's a good question! I think it will over time.... prejudices seem to be formed on societal views of what's abnormal. So we need to try and normalise same sex relationships to an extent.... not to an extent where we say they are the norm, but to the extent where we can say as a society those types of relationships aren't abnormal. For the people involved in same sex relationships, I think they ARE normal because gay people are just following a natural predisposition.... much like we are. They just have a different inclination to heterosexual people... or a different primary inclination to those who may experiment with the same sex, but ultimately decide they are more suited to Herero relationships.

Normalising attitudes to homosexuality may result in more people experimenting with same sex encounters, but I don't think it is going to change the natural orientation of people who are 100 percent straight. If a person is somewhat bisexual, they may be encouraged by a more tolerant society to experiment with that lifestyle, but I don't think it will ultimately convince people who are 100 percent heterosexual they are actually of a different orientation.

In short, I feel the more something is accepted by society the more individual tolerance towards something that has been traditionally considered taboo will increase over time. One thing is for certain, I definitely think just the gesture of saying yes will result in gay people feeling more of a sense of societal acceptance.

Individual attitudes of prejudice may persist... when people form form beliefs, they become resistant to alternate perspectives....But overall, tolerance has increased a lot in the last 20 years or do since I left school....attitudes have already changed and evolved a lot, so I think legalising ssm would probably lead to attitudes of tolerance increasing in society. I don't know if prejudice can ever be eradicated. But acceptance that something is not wrong or abnormal on a societal level can only help increase tolerance. It may increase the statistics of people who have and openly talk about same sex encounters, but I don't think it will alter the percentage of people who are born with that natural predisposition to be gay... or even go through periods of curiosity.

Yep was going to reply to that question but you beat me to it.

Any kind of segregation for any minority is going to lead to an outlier look of that minority. Words even play their part which can have the same effect, as an example, ASIO and the AFP were so insistent that the correct language be used by Tony Abbott/Malcolm Turnbull when referring to terror attacks and muslims.

The more roadblocks are dismantled and the more we have them on equal footing to everyone, tolerance increases and that minority feels part of society

 

[CroydonDog]

I partied last night with a group of Thai lesbians. Those chicks know how to have a good time.

No idea how this is relevant but I just wanted to share.

 

[CaptainJackson]

I partied last night with a group of Thai lesbians. Those chicks know how to have a good time.

No idea how this is relevant but I just wanted to share.

Where was my invite damn it!!!!

 

[CroydonDog]

Where was my invite damn it!!!!

If you were in Bangkok last night you would have been free to join.

A good mate of mine is a big supporter of women in the live music scene here, so basically when I go out with him it's wall to wall lesbians.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

No but they will be exposed to it..

Canada are only Now starting to feel the ripple effects

http://www.marriagealliance.com.au/canada_ssm_destroying_all_other_rights

That's article has been posted many times in this thread and it's been debunked many times

 

[Flanagun]

it's wall to wall lesbians.

No load bearing walls?

Yeah I know, juvenile and unPC as Hell, but I can't resist a pun... even a lewd and smutty one. Wall to wall lesbians? ... I mean come on... jokes had to be made about that turn of phrase...

 

[The DoggFather]

No load bearing walls?

Yeah I know, juvenile and unPC as Hell, but I can't resist a pun... even a lewd and smutty one. Wall to wall lesbians? ... I mean come on... jokes had to be made about that turn of phrase...

How do you turn a phrase? Lol

 

[Dawgfather]

Nah. Marriage existed for many reasons throughout history. Generally it was a way to bring two families together. Families in conflict would engage their children in marriage to avoid further conflict. Of course there's many other purposes for marriage. Starting a family, having kids, preventing conflict, just because you love each other. None of these require procreation though.

The primary reason people get married is to start and raise a family. Yes there are other reasons, but this is the primary one.

 

[Dawgfather]

Do you think gay marriage will decrease homophobia?

Of course it won't.

Nor will it have any impact on suicide rates.

But that's what gay activists (including Westpac) have lied about throughout the campaign.

 

[Mr Invisible]

So if the gays win will anyone honestly loose any sleep over this ?

Well @south of heaven we all know that gays are carriers of the AIDS gene which is contagious.

So it won't be long before everyone is dead from aids.

The gays and the straights
And the white and the spades

Everyone will have aids.

 

[Flanagun]

How do you turn a phrase? Lol

I don't know. No campaigners would probably tell you you turn a phrase by eroding the moral fabric of the paragraph it lives in.