Russia vs Ukraine

[alchemist]

Because a rival superpower is trying to start a new Soviet Union by annexing a country with vital resources which should be a direct threat to American security and interests.

the Soviet Union ain't ever coming back... the Baltic states are all NATO members, Armenia and Azerbaijan are at each other's throats, Ukraine is a basket case with an even bleaker future now, the Central Asian republics enjoy being their own despotates, Moldova is of no value (no offence), Georgia undermined by the autonomy of Abkhazia and South Ossetia etc.

this "Putin wishes to reconstitute the USSR" is a baseless media talking point

 

[alchemist]

Which European Country aside from maybe France has any serious military capabilities that would come close to matching Russia? They need the US and all of their military power. Even if it's just the threat of it.. The US don't have to send hundreds of thousands of troops. It's mostly air strikes and drone attacks now anyway..

in a conventional war, the UK, Germany and France have enough to deal with Russia IMO

 

[Jai81]

As I said earlier, America only gets involved when it suits them financially. Which is why they're even more hypocritical, gutless and transparent by dragging their feet on this.

Wars cost money, BIG money! No one gets involved unless they get something out of it....

 

[alchemist]

Wars cost money, BIG money! No one gets involved unless they get something out of it....

ah, but there is also big money to be made from war for the hawks that keep pushing for it

 

[B-Train]

the Soviet Union ain't ever coming back... the Baltic states are all NATO members, Armenia and Azerbaijan are at each other's throats, Ukraine is a basket case with an even bleaker future now, the Central Asian republics enjoy being their own despotates, Moldova is of no value (no offence), Georgia undermined by the autonomy of Abkhazia and South Ossetia etc.

this "Putin wishes to reconstitute the USSR" is a baseless media talking point

So he's just invading Ukraine for the fun of it?

 

[B-Train]

in a conventional war, the UK, Germany and France have enough to deal with Russia IMO

There are no conveniental wars these days. It's more air strikes and drones and strategic attacks than millions of troops and tanks being deployed. That's where the US' air force is needed.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496716506243211272

 

[alchemist]

So he's just invading Ukraine for the fun of it?

Russia will break Ukraine before it allows it to become westernised as a EU and NATO member, and it is likely happening now because the West has likely armed the Kiev Government enough to wipe out the separatists in Donetsk and Luhansk

 

[alchemist]

There are no conveniental wars these days. It's more air strikes and drones and strategic attacks than millions of troops and tanks being deployed. That's where the US' air force is needed.

by conventional, I mean non-nuclear and apart from Russian mobile missile systems and their newest submarines, I think the armies, navies and air forces of the West European countries are better armed, better trained and at least of comparable technological standard with the Russians

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Russia will break Ukraine before it allows it to become westernised as a EU and NATO member, and it is likely happening now because the West has likely armed the Kiev Government enough to wipe out the separatists in Donetsk and Luhansk

Agreed.

I think the primary reason Putin is invading now is:

- Ukraine is getting close to joining NATO which puts a threat on Russia's doorstep

- Putin wants to control the Russia/EU gas line that goes straight through Ukraine

- Putin wants to restore the river into Crimea that Ukraine blocked

- Putin wants the reformation of the Soviet Union

Biden saying that Russia "won't stop at Ukraine" is just a page out of the Vietnam, "Communism will spread" playbook

 

[alchemist]

Agreed.

I think the primary reason Putin is invading now is:

- Ukraine is getting close to joining NATO which puts a threat on Russia's doorstep

- Putin wants to control the Russia/EU gas line that goes straight through Ukraine

- Putin wants to restore the river into Crimea that Ukraine blocked

- Putin wants the reformation of the Soviet Union

Biden saying that Russia "won't stop at Ukraine" is just a page out of the Vietnam, "Communism will spread" playbook

so, why does the US keep pushing for the inclusion of Ukraine?

 

[Jai81]

say Ukraine joins NATO, so what?! NATO will not invade Russia for no reason.... if they were going to invade Russia now is the time to do it but instead they sit on their hands....

 

[B-Train]

Agreed.

I think the primary reason Putin is invading now is:

- Ukraine is getting close to joining NATO which puts a threat on Russia's doorstep

- Putin wants to control the Russia/EU gas line that goes straight through Ukraine

- Putin wants to restore the river into Crimea that Ukraine blocked

- Putin wants the reformation of the Soviet Union

Biden saying that Russia "won't stop at Ukraine" is just a page out of the Vietnam, "Communism will spread" playbook

It maybe rhetoric from Biden but there is truth to it. If Putin wants to reform the Soviet Union and takes Ukraine, then of course he won't stop there when there are far smaller and weaker countries surrounding it.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

so, why does the US keep pushing for the inclusion of Ukraine?

It's not so much the US. It's Ukraine pushing now, and primarily out of fear of Russia.

When Ukraine recently pushed to go ahead with NATO membership, US and UK didn't support it.

Of course the main reason for that is probably because it's easier for the US to do deals with Ukraine if they are independent, and supporting NATO membership for Ukraine would have advanced invasion plans for Russia.

 

[alchemist]

say Ukraine joins NATO, so what?! NATO will not invade Russia for no reason.... if they were going to invade Russia now is the time to do it but instead they sit on their hands....

why does the US get such benefit of the doubt? why are they presumed to be the good guys?

 

[Jai81]

Follow the 9News live breaking news blog throughout the day

www.9news.com.au

 

[alchemist]

It's not so much the US. It's Ukraine pushing now, and primarily out of fear of Russia.

When Ukraine recently pushed to go ahead with NATO membership, US and UK didn't support it.

Of course the main reason for that is probably because it's easier for the US to do deals with Ukraine if they are independent, and supporting NATO membership for Ukraine would have advanced invasion plans for Russia.

but the West have known for 14 years that the Russians would oppose NATO membership for Ukraine... so, again, why keep pushing it?

 

[Jai81]

why does the US get such benefit of the doubt? why are they presumed to be the good guys?

When did I say the US are the good guys?
I just said that NATO would not invade Russia

 

[Cook]

Seems sanctions aren’t the only weapon of choice. Wouldn’t these sanctions take a very long time for effect’s to be felt. Like years??

 

[alchemist]

When did I say the US are the good guys?
I just said that NATO would not invade Russia

NATO membership for Ukraine would allow the US to cut off Russia from the Black Sea by taking over the Sevastopol Naval Base on Crimea... it would allow the US to park all manner of "defensive" weapons on the Russian border pointed at Moscow, St Petersburg etc... the US could then also control the Sea of Azov, undermine Russian territorial integrity into the Caucuses, be better placed to politically destabilize Russia, embolden Georgia as to Abkhazia and South Ossetia etc.