Coronavirus.

[Dawgfather]

It makes it even harder when we have people spreading myths like "Coronavirus is a myth" and "masks don't work"

Anyone who says covid doesn’t exist is indeed ignorant.

however there is some truth to saying that masks don’t work. They may provide very minimal protection however given most don’t use them correctly, masks may be spreading the virus more than They protect people from it.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Anyone who says covid doesn’t exist is indeed ignorant.

however there is some truth to saying that masks don’t work. They may provide very minimal protection however given most don’t use them correctly, masks may be spreading the virus more than They protect people from it.

If only I already showed you several meta-analysis studies that showed that your point is wrong... may have to scroll back a few pages.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Sorry. Edited my response. Wasn't concentrating. I wrote "proved your point wrong" which is technically incorrect.

I had one Professor who kept getting annoyed when people say "proved" instead of "Showed" or "suggested". As he would say, "Science and research can't prove anything. The only place for proof is in math and alcohol"

 

[Dawgfather]

If only I already showed you several meta-analysis studies that showed that your point is wrong... may have to scroll back a few pages.

there are numerous studies which conversely point out masks have minimal effect partly because they are simply not able to be used in a way that could make them effective.

People wear them for too long and also reuse them
People touch them constantly
high risk people obtain a false sense of security that masks are perfect and put themselves in situations where they are more likely to catch the virus

Separate from these studies, I can use my own two eyes on buses and trains to see that every day mask wearers are touching their faces non stop, touching bus surfaces and then touching their mask which just transfers the virus directly to their nose and mouth.

Im not really ‘against masks’, good luck to anyone who wants to wear one. I just disagree with the government having any right to mandate their use, particularly in environments That are not even risky - such as the outdoors.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

there are numerous studies which conversely point out masks have minimal effect partly because they are simply not able to be used in a way that could make them effective.

People wear them for too long and also reuse them
People touch them constantly
high risk people obtain a false sense of security that masks are perfect and put themselves in situations where they are more likely to catch the virus

Separate from these studies, I can use my own two eyes on buses and trains to see that every day mask wearers are touching their faces non stop, touching bus surfaces and then touching their mask which just transfers the virus directly to their nose and mouth.

Im not really ‘against masks’, good luck to anyone who wants to wear one. I just disagree with the government having any right to mandate their use, particularly in environments That are not even risky - such as the outdoors.

This is why I said, "Meta-analysis". As in, an analysis of all available studies rather than just one study.

If you want just one study, I can give you a single study that supports Big Foot being real.

It's important to actually separate the single poor studies from the well reviewed thorough studies.

 

[Dawgfather]

This is why I said, "Meta-analysis". As in, an analysis of all available studies rather than just one study.

If you want just one study, I can give you a single study that supports Big Foot being real.

It's important to actually separate the single poor studies from the well reviewed thorough studies.

Yes I know. There are numerous studies indicating masks have negligible or minimal effectiveness

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Yes I know. There are numerous studies indicating masks have negligible or minimal effectiveness

Numerous suggests many. There's not that many. The number of studies that suggest negligible effectiveness are tiny compared to the massive amount of studies that suggest that masks are effective.

But feel free to provide evidence if I'm wrong.

 

[Dawgfather]

Numerous suggests many. There's not that many. The number of studies that suggest negligible effectiveness are tiny compared to the massive amount of studies that suggest that masks are effective.

But feel free to provide evidence if I'm wrong.

I provided the review of numerous studies a couple of days ago. It references multiple studies.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

I provided the review of numerous studies a couple of days ago. It references multiple studies.

And I pointed out that your review was posted on a blog, it was not peer reviewed, and it was posted by a guy who was fired for teaching students conspiracy theories.

I then posted several meta-analysis studies that were all carried out by teams of researchers, all peer reviewed, all published in well respected scientific journals, and all found the complete opposite of what you are saying.

As I said. If you want me to support your stance then you are going to need to provide a study that is at least equal to the others I provided.

 

[Dawgfather]

And I pointed out that your review was posted on a blog, it was not peer reviewed, and it was posted by a guy who was fired for teaching students conspiracy theories.

I then posted several meta-analysis studies that were all carried out by teams of researchers, all peer reviewed, all published in well respected scientific journals, and all found the complete opposite of what you are saying.

As I said. If you want me to support your stance then you are going to need to provide a study that is at least equal to the others I provided.

I'm not trying to get anyone's support of my stance.

You can take it or leave it. End of the day, numerous studies have shown minimal benefits of masks.

It was also only a few months ago that even the WHO and CDC also indicated that masks were not as beneficial as people believe they are.

Anthony Fauci is on record saying they are not the perfect protection people think they are and he also highlighted the risks because people constantly touch them.

Masks may provide some benefits, but this is far from clear based on what we know so far. However, we do know for certain that masks could increase the risks with COVID, due to people falsely believing masks are bullet proof and not wearing them correctly.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

I'm not trying to get anyone's support of my stance.

You can take it or leave it. End of the day, numerous studies have shown minimal benefits of masks.

It was also only a few months ago that even the WHO and CDC also indicated that masks were not as beneficial as people believe they are.

Anthony Fauci is on record saying they are not the perfect protection people think they are and he also highlighted the risks because people constantly touch them.

Masks may provide some benefits, but this is far from clear based on what we know so far. However, we do know for certain that masks could increase the risks with COVID, due to people falsely believing masks are bullet proof and not wearing them correctly.

Nah. This is what's called Scientific advancement.

This is the issue with the blogger you posted earlier. Other than cherry picking data, he posts old research. Due to the pandemic there has been a flood of new research. This is why Fauci, the WHO and the CDC all changed their stance. It's due to 2 factors:

1) changes in understanding of mask upsides in comparison to their downsides

2) changes in understanding of Covid-19

For example. The early research we had on the virus showed that it was most likely transmitted through surface contact. Touch a surface, touch your face, catch the virus. If that's the case then mask use would likely increase the spread faster.

More recent research has shown that surface contact is extremely minimal with primary transmission being person to person through respiration (coughing, sneezing, etc)

A person well versed in science would read the most recent research and say, "now we understand that masks are effective"

A person not so well versed in science would read the old research and say, "the benefits of masks aren't clear"

This is how science works.

 

[Dawgfather]

Nah. This is what's called Scientific advancement.

This is the issue with the blogger you posted earlier. Other than cherry picking data, he posts old research. Due to the pandemic there has been a flood of new research. This is why Fauci, the WHO and the CDC all changed their stance. It's due to 2 factors:

1) changes in understanding of mask upsides in comparison to their downsides

2) changes in understanding of Covid-19

For example. The early research we had on the virus showed that it was most likely transmitted through surface contact. Touch a surface, touch your face, catch the virus. If that's the case then mask use would likely increase the spread faster.

More recent research has shown that surface contact is extremely minimal with primary transmission being person to person through respiration (coughing, sneezing, etc)

A person well versed in science would read the most recent research and say, "now we understand that masks are effective"

A person not so well versed in science would read the old research and say, "the benefits of masks aren't clear"

This is how science works.

Happy to disagree with you. I think you have a strong bias towards making your mind up on particular issues based on your political persuasions. But it's just my opinion. Could be completely wrong.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Happy to disagree with you. I think you have a strong bias towards making your mind up on particular issues based on your political persuasions. But it's just my opinion. Could be completely wrong.

Of course that's your response. Because you're not looking for the facts. You're only looking for what will support your existing beliefs. Hence why when I provide you with actual factual information in response to your non-factual information, your response is to accuse others of bias.

Because you can't accept that you may be wrong about something.

Don't feel bad though. That pretty much sums up all humans. It's a psychological thing that's ingrained in us thanks to evolution.

 

[Dawgfather]

Of course that's your response. Because you're not looking for the facts. You're only looking for what will support your existing beliefs. Hence why when I provide you with actual factual information in response to your non-factual information, your response is to accuse others of bias.

Because you can't accept that you may be wrong about something.

Don't feel bad though. That pretty much sums up all humans. It's a psychological thing that's ingrained in us thanks to evolution.

I've always pointed out I could be wrong on masks. I also accept they could present some benefits, but they are difficult to measure and are likely quite small. But based on what we as humans currently know - they aren't an important policy to go after.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

I've always pointed out I could be wrong on masks. I also accept they could present some benefits, but they are difficult to measure and are likely quite small. But based on what we as humans currently know - they aren't an important policy to go after.

I have to point out how your argument sounds:

Me - "here's qualified evidence that the earth is round"

You - "humans don't know that the earth is not flat and there's no reason to think it's not flat"

You repeatedly say you're willing to accept that you're wrong. I give you undeniable evidence and instead of reading or understanding the evidence, you call me bias and stick to your guns.

You are 100% bias and will not accept any evidence to the contrary so please stop suggesting that you are open to being wrong. You are not. You speak delicately in hopes people will believe that you are open to evidence and then you ignore any evidence given to you.

You are 100% bias and ignorant to anything against your own bias. Please stop suggesting otherwise.

 

[Dawgfather]

There are 10/11 studies already presented.

Also, the study posted a week or two ago showed 85% of participants contracted COVID despite wearing masks.

Yes, many of these people had been in confined indoors environments and this is where they likely contracted it, however the point is clear - masks as a mandate do not work because masks can not always be worn, and even when they are people often contract the virus anyway.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

There are 10/11 studies already presented.

Also, the study posted a week or two ago showed 85% of participants contracted COVID despite wearing masks.

Yes, many of these people had been in confined indoors environments and this is where they likely contracted it, however the point is clear - masks as a mandate do not work because masks can not always be worn, and even when they are people often contract the virus anyway.

Please stop pretending you understand this stuff. Myself and several others pointed out to you that the study you're referring to does not ever suggest the people caught it while wearing masks. It literally says that they caught it while attending places where they couldn't use masks. Specially, restaurants.

This was pointed out to you multiple times and you ignored it because it didn't match your bias.

If you have any other peer reviewed studies to support your stance, please provide them as you have not provided one yet.

 

[Dawgfather]

Please stop pretending you understand this stuff. Myself and several others pointed out to you that the study you're referring to does not ever suggest the people caught it while wearing masks. It literally says that they caught it while attending places where they couldn't use masks. Specially, restaurants.

This was pointed out to you multiple times and you ignored it because it didn't match your bias.

If you have any other peer reviewed studies to support your stance, please provide them as you have not provided one yet.

That is one study, one top of the many others referenced.

I don't pretend to be anything. I'm certainly not a scientist and never pretended to be one.

What is concerning though is that someone like me with no scientific background can accept that a number of options are possible and to remain genuinely curious to the possibility of each of them.

Whereas you (from what I hear you're a scientist), are hell bent on there being one possibility to the exclusion of all others. Very unscientific.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

That is one study, one top of the many others referenced.

I don't pretend to be anything. I'm certainly not a scientist and never pretended to be one.

What is concerning though is that someone like me with no scientific background can accept that a number of options are possible and to remain genuinely curious to the possibility of each of them.

Whereas you (from what I hear you're a scientist), are hell bent on there being one possibility to the exclusion of all others. Very unscientific.

Your lack of scientific understanding is the issue here.

You're misunderstanding research and when corrected, you ignore the correction and still misunderstand the research.

You're giving the same weight to blogs as you are to actual scientific research.

And you still haven't provided any actual research that supports your opinion.

Anything is possible and nothing can be 100% confirmed. But weight of evidence matters.

 

[The DoggFather]

France is fucked also , I think the focus on the us that they are divided by politics, sheer stupidity, selfishness and they are meant to be world leaders ,
The country is in a melt down it's like a crash you stop and look .
The end of the day I just want to be sitting on a shinkasen drinking sake and beer

And I wish to be sitting on a Cancun beach sipping margaritas and banging señoritas lol